Intro (00:00:05):
Today’s episode is a conversation between Fight the new Drug’s executive director Natalie and Director of Public Outreach, Parker. The answer questions submitted by our fighters including what are some of the problems with AI porn? Does a partner looking at porn impact a couple’s sex life and many more? Natalie and Parker discussed the impact of pornography on individuals, relationships and society. Touching on issues [00:00:30] like extortion scams, parental concerns about online safety and the challenges of quitting porn. They delved into the problems with tube sites and AI porn emphasizing the need for open conversations. They highlight the importance of removing shame and providing resources for support. Ultimately, they advocate for positive change through education and dialogue. With that, let’s jump into the conversation. We hope you enjoyed this episode of Consider Before Consuming.

Natale (00:01:00):
[00:01:00] Hey Parker.

Parker (00:01:06):
Hey, Natalie.

Natale (00:01:08):
So Parker and I are here today to chat about some of the questions that you, our fighters have sent in on social media or via email or messaging or whatever it may be. So we’re going to kind of dive right in. If this sparks any other questions you have for us, please send them our way. Maybe we’ll start a series, do this more often. [00:01:30] But for today we wanted to get started with the questions you’ve sent. So a little context. Do you want to tell people who you are, what your role is here?

Parker (00:01:40):
Yeah, so I’m Parker. I oversee public outreach at Fight The New Drug. So I oversee our presentation program and some curriculum and resource development, and I do live events as part of that and see some of the questions that we commonly get asked at live events. And in the past I’ve been involved with [00:02:00] answering questions that we get over social media and things like that as well. Yeah,

Natale (00:02:05):
Awesome. Some of the questions we did get were about live events, so glad you’re here to tell us about some of your experiences you’ve had. One thing we were asked was what are some common themes parents are dealing with that you hear about at live events?

Parker (00:02:21):
That’s actually a really thoughtful question. I’m glad that someone asked that because the trend recently, [00:02:30] I do want to say some of the things that we may talk about today because of some of the questions we got, they may be heavy. So maybe just a little bit of a warning for anyone listening, but recently at live events, especially community events where we’re mostly talking to adult audiences and parents, the trends that we’re seeing our parents are concerned because kids are more frequently being victims of sextortion scams. So if you don’t know what that is or you [00:03:00] haven’t heard of Sextortion before, essentially the most common thing is someone contacts a minor on social media, they’re pretending to also be a minor. At some point, that conversation evolves to the point where they’re exchanging nudes or something of that nature, and they’re trying to get them to send nudes, and they may have sent nudes that aren’t of them.

(00:03:20):
They may have had child sexual exploitation material that they send to make it seem like they’re also minor. And once that youth sends them that content, they basically [00:03:30] have already often found their family through their social media, things like that, and they basically blackmail them into saying, Hey, if you don’t send us money right now, we’re going to send these pictures to your parent, to your friend. We’re going to post them, we’re going to tag you like your life will be over. And unfortunately, these scams are really difficult for youth. They feel like they can’t talk to their parents. A lot of times it leads to self-harm or attempted self-harm [00:04:00] before the parent finds out. But this is something that we’re commonly hearing about at events is that parents are really concerned about this issue because it’s too easy for anyone anywhere in the world to contact their child and to try to convince them that they’re someone they’re not, and then to blackmail them. And when they do send money, they just keep asking for more. And when they don’t, they blackmail them. Or when they stop sending money, they attempt to blackmail them. And these youth feel like their life is over, and [00:04:30] that often leads to self-harm. So that’s one of the things that we’re commonly hearing about. We would strongly encourage parents to be having these conversations with their kids and to recognize that there’s nothing better that you can do for your children than to have open, honest and frequent conversations with them.

Natale (00:04:45):
Yeah, a hundred percent. And I think it’s important to note too that not every instance where young people are exchanging nudes or sexually explicit material are in scenarios where they’re being extorted. And so that’s why part [00:05:00] of the reason why this behavior has become so normalized that it is more normal for once a young person is groomed by someone in this situation to send something because it’s happening often. We have this stat here that nearly 50%, 46.8% of youth report having received a sexted image. And that’s just what’s been reported. But this is something that we are hearing a lot. We are hearing a lot from young people and from adults in schools. And this is something that’s happening [00:05:30] really frequently, and it’s part of the reason that conversations healthy conversations are so important for parents and trusted adults to be having with young people.

Parker (00:05:39):
And if you want more information, just search the term sextortion on our blog. There’s some great articles you can read another stat. One of the articles that you will find when you search that is that one in four sextortion victims from recent survey are 13 or younger. So clearly this is an issue.

Natale (00:05:58):
And that’s something too. I mean, [00:06:00] part of the reason parents are asking about this at live events are because they’re wanting to know any parents listening, what can you do? Healthy conversations are always the most important thing. Making sure you’re a safe person for a young person to come to know. They’re not going to get in trouble if they’re in a situation like this. But to also know what things you can do as kind of parameters. So being really aware of what is on social media or on a device before you grant access to a device to young people. Having some [00:06:30] boundaries around how that’s used and healthy. Digital safety tips within your family to make sure it’s being used responsibly and helping them navigate this digital world in a way that’s safe for them as well.

Parker (00:06:42):
Absolutely. Yeah. Those are things unfortunately that we’re hearing at live events recently, but hopefully the resources that we provide and the things we’ve mentioned can help parents to better handle these situations, to be prepared and to find direction if they find theirself in this situation. [00:07:00] If this happens, it doesn’t mean that you did anything wrong. And Natalie mentioned kids need to feel like they’re not in trouble. It doesn’t mean that there can’t be consequences when we’re trying to help raise kids, of course. But it means that the most important thing is that you want them to keep being honest with you and you want them to come back to you time and time again. And we want them to know above all else that they’re loved. And so those are just what we’re saying, take priority in these moments. Yeah,

Natale (00:07:27):
Absolutely. And just to give a little [00:07:30] bit of context, because you mentioned these are things we’re hearing at live events. So for anyone who doesn’t know, we do live presentations in schools and community groups often when we present, we’ll do kind of a parent and community night the night before and then youth presentations the next day. So these are some of the questions we’re getting from parents and community members, educators who are attending those presentations the night before. But what are some questions that you’re getting from youth when we have these youth presentations [00:08:00] in schools or community groups?

Parker (00:08:03):
Yeah, it’s interesting. With youth presentations, it kind of goes the other way with parents. There’s these bigger issues that they’re really concerned about that are real problems and that we want to get them solutions for. But with kids, the thing that we hear over and over again, especially recently in the last year, and we do countless events every year, the thing we hear over and over from youth is that they’re so glad that someone’s talking to ’em about this finally, they don’t feel like it’s being talked about at [00:08:30] school in their home, that none of the things, none of their village, whatever that kid’s village is, they don’t feel like they’re getting these resources and support from any of those other sources. And so they’re just, ultimately the biggest feedback is they’re so grateful someone is finally talking about this. And that’s what we hear over and over and over again.

Natale (00:08:51):
And I think we started doing presentations in 2011 in 2011. And I think that’s important to note that ever since the first presentation [00:09:00] we did, kind of what we’re reminded every time we present is that kids know more than we as adults, often want to give them credit for knowing this is something that their lives are inundated with. This information, this topic, this content. It’s everywhere around them. They know more than we think they know. By us having responsible and appropriate age appropriate conversations with them, we’re most likely not introducing this to them. They’re [00:09:30] already aware of this, and they’re so grateful to have resources to appropriately know how to navigate these things because they’re already dealing with them and otherwise they’re kind of dealing with them on their own. So I think that’s an important reminder that they know more than we think they do, or we want to believe that they do.

Parker (00:09:49):
And that’s just the nature of these kids growing up in a digital age. Someone who’s graduating high school this school year is graduating in 2025, and that means that they were born in 2007, [00:10:00] so their parents were likely an age where they were born in the late seventies, early eighties. And around the time they’re having kids is when social media and the first smartphones became available. And so they’re exposed to that as an adult. We are not yet at a point where people who had these things as kids have kids who are in middle school and high school, we’re not there yet. And so many of these parents just are kind of unaware [00:10:30] of some of the issues that relate to these topics. They’re unaware of the resources as well. And that’s ultimately why we want to get this information out.

Natale (00:10:38):
There’s a gap in understanding what this issue really looks like for young people today because it’s not the same as it looked for those parents when they were that age. A hundred percent. So bringing parents up to speed, really helping adults, educators, the adults who are in these young people’s lives, understand what these issues are and then make sure we are prepared to help [00:11:00] prepare them to navigate this world.

Parker (00:11:02):
Exactly. And that goes to one of the other questions that we got was how does pornography impact mental health, which is something we obviously talk about a lot, but what really is the core of that? And I think that you’re really great at speaking to this, but when we’re talking about what is the ultimate impact on mental health, we talked a lot about how it impacts individuals generally, how it can affect various different parts of an individual’s life. But when [00:11:30] we’re talking about how it impacts their mental health, specifically, what are we seeing in the research and the data?

Natale (00:11:35):
And I mean decades of research are showing impacts of born on individuals relationships in society. We talk about that all the time, but specifically with regard to mental health, research shows porn consumption is linked to poorer mental health, lower self-esteem, poorer body image, and less fulfilling relationships and more loneliness. So all of the things that if someone is already experiencing negative mental health [00:12:00] outcomes, often individuals seek out pornography to cope with these kind of negative feelings. So loneliness, boredom, poor self-esteem, stress. Stress, exactly. Porn is often used as a coping mechanism, but what it does is even if maybe it temporarily relieves that feeling, it often spirals individuals into a cycle where they stay in this negative cycle. It often makes it worse over time. And research shows that personal stories show that we’ve spoken [00:12:30] with countless individuals who have had a porn habit that has escalated to the point where it made their mental health worse than it was before they started using porn to cope with that scenario.

(00:12:44):
So I think that’s really important for parents to be aware of, especially parents who grew up pre-internet pornography, and really understanding the difference between having content that is more accessible, affordable, [00:13:00] available, and anonymous than it’s ever been before in the history of the world where a young person can seek out something and at the click of a button have access to tens of thousands of images and videos and things that can escalate in nature over time, that can become compulsive, that can grow into something that has been proven to not help improve mental health. And [00:13:30] I think that’s something mental health is being talked about a lot right now. It’s something we’re obviously aware of as a society and pornography has been shown to do anything but help mental health. So I think it’s really important for parents to be aware of that and for young people to be aware of that too, to know how this can affect them.

Parker (00:13:49):
Absolutely. Yeah. One of the things I always say with live audiences is it doesn’t help in the long run. Yes. Being lonely, being stressed, being sad, being bored, those aren’t fun emotions, but [00:14:00] it doesn’t mean that they’re not normal, natural, and in some cases healthy. Absolutely. Those are just a part of life. Absolutely. And when we use something to cope with those emotions in the long run, the research shows that pornography, using something like porn to cope with those emotions in the long run, it only further complicates the issues surrounding mental health you’re talking

Natale (00:14:17):
About. Absolutely. And maybe just to add to that, for anyone who hasn’t seen a live presentation or isn’t as familiar with the research on this topic, can you talk a little bit about what we share in our presentations with why that is? [00:14:30] The brain’s response to how we train our brains in response to any kind of action or behavior and how that can work positively or negatively for us?

Parker (00:14:43):
So essentially, in live presentations, we talk about this a lot, but trying to help young people to understand some key functions in the right. So first being that our brains are neuroplastic, that the decisions that we make every day, our brain is trying to ultimately find what’s going to keep us happy, healthy, [00:15:00] and alive. And so those decisions train our brain towards certain behaviors. This means that someone can develop a struggle with pornography. It also means they can heal from a struggle with pornography because of the fact that the brain literally changes. And then the other thing we talked about is two kind of key parts of the brain, which is the reward system and the prefrontal cortex. So the reward system essentially drives our desires and the prefrontal cortex, it kind of acts like the breaks of the brain, essentially, it helps keep the reward system in check.

(00:15:29):
And [00:15:30] with the problem with pornography is we see in the research that when someone consumes porn, it weakens the relationship between the reward system and the prefrontal cortex, meaning the prefrontal cortex is less well able to keep the reward system in check. And so someone can develop a habit, a compulsive behavior, or even an addiction to pornography. And we want to be clear as we always are at fight the new drug, that not everyone who consumes porn is going to be addicted. That’s not what we’re saying, but that there’s an abundance of research to show that porn addiction’s very real. It shares many similarities to addiction, to [00:16:00] a substance like say nicotine that makes cigarettes addictive. And aside from all of that, as many of the listeners know, there are countless people around the world who struggle with pornography, and many of them are aware it’s impacting their life, and yet they still can’t stop. And that’s also something to consider when we’re not only looking at the research, but the personal experiences to show how porn can impact individuals, their mental health and those kinds of things.

Natale (00:16:23):
So I think that all of that is important context for how and why a porn habit, especially one that’s [00:16:30] being used as a coping mechanism. Coping mechanism can kind of spiral in a negative direction, but also as a reminder that we can heal and we can overcome these things because of the way our brains work. So for someone who is struggling or maybe porn has negatively contributed to negative mental health outcomes, we can reverse that, right? Yeah,

Parker (00:16:51):
Absolutely. The brain can heal, things can get better. You’re not alone.

Natale (00:16:54):
And I think that’s an important reminder for anyone listening to this.

Parker (00:16:58):
And we see that in the research and personal experiences. [00:17:00] And if you’re ever just lacking a little bit of hope in that journey, because setbacks aren’t failures, it doesn’t mean that this won’t get better over time, but it does take time. Just go to our website, click videos and watch a couple videos. I promise it’ll help you feel better seeing people who have been through similar experiences to you and knowing that things can get better over time. Absolutely. Now, another question that we got that is unfortunately a topic [00:17:30] that can be really difficult. Essentially, how do we support a partner and quitting porn without ignoring the trauma that people often refer to as betrayal trauma? Finding out that a partner has been struggling with pornography and feeling that betrayal and trying to figure out where to go from here and how to help the partner and support the relationship while also find a healing themselves.

(00:17:53):
And the first thing that I would say about that is that I hope those individuals know [00:18:00] that they’re not alone. And this isn’t their fault. This is not a reflection of you or your fault in any way as the partner of someone who’s struggling. But instead knowing that if you want to be there to support this person and to help them through this struggle, there are resources and you can still take care of your own needs and mental health and expectations, you can still have boundaries. All of that can still exist, but we understand why that’s a question, because that can be complicated. It feels like you’re juggling [00:18:30] a lot of things.

Natale (00:18:31):
And I think there are a lot of different pieces of this to address. So first of all, I would say we often get asked kind of in conjunction with this, should I support a partner or should I not? And I think the first thing to note is different things are right for different people of course. And we are not here to tell you what is right for you at the end of the day, nor should we, nor should we exactly. Nor we

Parker (00:18:58):
Wish we could give you all the answers, but we can’t

Natale (00:19:00):
[00:19:00] Exactly individuals know what is right for them within their relationships. And I think if someone chooses to pursue supporting a partner in healing, then it’s really important to note that it is possible. You just mentioned a minute ago going to our site, watching some videos. We have many videos of couples who have overcome this together where one partner struggled and another partner with healthy boundaries processed through the feelings they had about this on their [00:19:30] own, but then supported their partner and they’ve overcome this and they’re doing really well. That’s absolutely possible. We also hear stories from individuals who choose not to pursue that path and who decide that it is right for them to go their separate ways. And both of those options are okay. There’s no right or wrong answer, but one thing that is the most important for a partner of someone who has a pornography habit or addiction is to make sure that as the partner, they are taking [00:20:00] care of themselves first and foremost along the way.

(00:20:02):
So that means having healthy boundaries around what you will and won’t do as a partner willing to support having enough support yourself. So whether that’s a support system in your life of friends and family, having a therapist or a clinical professional who is supporting you in this healing journey, betrayal, trauma is very real, especially for individuals who have been together or [00:20:30] married are in a situation where they find out down the road about something they didn’t know about. They feel that betrayal. It’s a very real thing. And there are resources, as you mentioned to help, but also something you said is to really know that this isn’t your fault and it’s not about you. And I think something to remind people is often when an individual struggles with pornography, that struggle begins at such a young age for so many people, the porn industry is preying upon. [00:21:00] I dunno if I want to say that in that way.

Parker (00:21:05):
We can say that. Yeah,

Natale (00:21:07):
We can say that the point of tree is preying upon on young people and content is created to, I don’t like the way any of this is going.

Parker (00:21:19):
You can restart. I’m sorry. Yeah.

Natale (00:21:20):
I’m going to start. Individuals who are really young, who are accessing this content at a young age are experiencing [00:21:30] this in a way that’s becoming compulsive well before they meet their future partner or the partner who maybe they’re in a relationship with at this time. So that’s not an excuse, a bit of an explanation of how and why someone might be struggling with something even down the road. Often we hear from people, they say, well, when I get married, I’ll stop, or when this is just something while I’m single and alone, but when I’m [00:22:00] in a relationship, I’ll stop. And I think based on what we know from how the brain works, that’s not always the case. And so people find themselves in relationships where this is something that comes up and please feel

Parker (00:22:13):
Free that or they struggle with it in the past, and then a trauma occurs or there’s some kind of a trigger in their life, a

Natale (00:22:18):
Stressor or

Parker (00:22:20):
Fall back into unhealthy past habits or something like that. And again, to clarify what you said at the beginning, you’re only sharing that not to excuse this or [00:22:30] to not for any reason like that, but essentially because we want to remind those partners that this is not your fault, and here’s one of the reasons why this person was exposed likely at a very young age to this content.

Natale (00:22:47):
And I think also important to note that, I mean, societally porn isn’t something that we speak about often. That’s part of why we exist to help [00:23:00] break down the taboo around this topic and normalize conversations around this. But a lot of people in dating or relationships never talk about pornography. And so when it does come up, it’s something that people are saying, oh, well, I just assumed you would be fine with this. And the other partner is saying, well, I assumed you wouldn’t be fine with it. That’s something we hear often. And I think a good reminder that this is something we should be talking about as we pursue relationships and navigate relationships and grateful [00:23:30] for young people, for if you’ve been in a relationship for a couple of years and you haven’t talked about pornography and you have feelings about your boundaries around pornography in your relationship, then open. Start that conversation, that conversation start, have an ongoing conversation. And

Parker (00:23:45):
A great resource for that is the conversation blueprint. Yes. So ftd.org/ let’s talk about porn. You can just go to ftd.org and click blueprint. You can get access to that. It can help you map out the conversation ahead of time, have icebreakers to help ease some of the [00:24:00] anxiety and uncom as people often feel around the topic of pornography. I just wanted to mention that really

Natale (00:24:05):
Quickly. And for anyone who hasn’t used that resource, it’s interactive. So you can say, I am a parent and I want to talk to my child, or I’m a partner and I want to talk to my partner, or I want to talk to a friend and or I want to

Parker (00:24:16):
Educate my male, male on porn, whatever it might be,

Natale (00:24:18):
Whatever it is. And it will kind of guide you through the best ways to navigate a conversation based on dynamics as well, which is really helpful. There is nuance depending absolutely on the [00:24:30] conversation that you’re having

Parker (00:24:31):
And how to pick those conversations up again later. It’s not necessarily healthy or realistic to expect that you’re going to cover all of this in one conversation and that this is something you don’t ever have to talk about. Again, this is an ongoing discussion, whether it’s with your kids, your partner, whatever it might be. This is something that there’s so much to this conversation.

Natale (00:24:50):
Yes. And one thing I want to add, I know this started as a question about supporting a partner and betrayal trauma, and also I’m not sure that we’ve [00:25:00] actually answered how best to support a partner. So we will get to that. But I do just want to say for anyone who is struggling with pornography, maybe as a parent or in their relationship or is the partner of someone who’s struggling, often what we hear is that that’s a reason people don’t talk to their children about it because they think, well, this is something I’m struggling with. Who am I to tell them how to navigate this issue?

Parker (00:25:26):
You better than anyone. Yeah, you

Natale (00:25:28):
Are better than anyone because you understand [00:25:30] the impacts that it has. And if anything, you’re more qualified to have this conversation. Absolutely. So I just want to encourage you to know that that’s a great reason for you to be the one having this conversation to say, this is something I’ve struggled with, and I don’t want you to have the same struggle that I have. So I want to break down those walls.

Parker (00:25:50):
Well, so this is my fault that we went down so many other channels. But to go back to the start, so how do we best support, support that other person? We talked [00:26:00] about the betrayal trauma, we talked about some of the other downstream issues and things to be aware of some of the other caution signs, but how do we ultimately support that partner? Yes.

Natale (00:26:10):
How great question. I think, again, this is kind of a case by case, but number one, make sure you’re good to go. You have good boundaries for yourself. That’s first and foremost most important. But number two, I think talking with your partner is part of that, talking with your partner about [00:26:30] the ways that within whatever boundaries you have, you can help provide accountability to them noting what resources do they need? If they’re feeling triggered, do you feel comfortable saying, Hey, if you’re feeling triggered, come talk to me about it. Let’s set a precedent that if you’re feeling triggered and feeling like you want to pursue this, that you’ll come talk to me instead and we’ll go for a walk. Or having kind of a plan in place for what to do if and when these things come up. In some cases, it might mean going [00:27:00] to counseling or therapy together as a couple to work on opening up that communication within your relationship to navigate this.

(00:27:10):
I think in some cases that means installing filtration or something to help monitor or put some bumpers around access to these things. So there are a lot of really great ways to support a partner if that’s what you choose, that you want to do. And [00:27:30] I think ultimately the best thing is to start with talking with your partner and asking them what they need and what would be most helpful and supportive for them. Absolutely. So speaking of relationships and porn’s, impact within relationships and supporting partners struggling with porn, another question we got that we get often actually is, does a partner looking at porn impact a couple sex life? And if so, how? So

Parker (00:27:57):
Yes,

Natale (00:27:59):
The [00:28:00] short answer is yes, it

Parker (00:28:01):
Does. The short answer is yes. Yes, it does. So there’s numerous issues that we can talk about with why a partner looking at porn impacts a couple’s sex life. One thing just to mention off the start is to our knowledge there to this day, still has not been a single longitudinal study that over time shows in the long-term that consuming pornography has any positive benefit for relationships.

Natale (00:28:26):
That’s correct. And that’s as an individual or together in a couple. Yes,

Parker (00:28:29):
Absolutely. [00:28:30] Yes. So just to start with that, but jumping in specifically to how does it impact sex life? A couple issues. So watching porn, it fosters negative, so that’s already problematic. There’s a higher porn consumption often leads to less sex in relationships. And if I remember right, those findings are not correlational, they’re directional. So the more porn that you consume, the less sex that you’re having, meaning it’s not just a correlation. There’s actually directional findings, and then watching porn can break trust in a relationship. We see that people who consume pornography [00:29:00] are more likely to be accepting of cheating in a relationship, things of that nature.

Natale (00:29:07):
And one other thing to note, if one partner especially is consuming porn in a relationship, and this is a little bit going back to the question we just covered, often the partner who is not consuming porn, there are effects for them as well. So it affects their self-esteem. They’re playing the comparison game. Some of this is associated with betrayal trauma of, oh, well, [00:29:30] if my partner is pursuing someone who looks like that in pornography, I don’t look like that. Or someone who is interested in or willing to sexually pursue things I’m not interested in or willing to pursue those things. So I think that there’s a lot of comparison that’s set up there for partners as well. Absolutely. We’ve heard that from many people. Research also shows that impact, but that’s another way in which one partner, especially consuming pornography can

Parker (00:29:57):
Impact people. And we see even in the personal stories, [00:30:00] many partners sharing with us that they feel less interested in sex or less willing to participate or engage in sex with a partner when they’re consuming pornography because they feel that betrayal, they feel alone, they feel like they’re not enough. They are thinking about how their partner is just having an endless array of images that they’ve been exposed to or are consuming. And that’s difficult to want to be engaged with someone when that’s what’s on your mind. Yeah,

Natale (00:30:29):
The idea [00:30:30] of how could I ever be good enough If you can search tens of thousands of whatever you want, at the end of the day, most of which is not me. Absolutely. And that for the partner who is consuming pornography, they’re having this experience where they are bonding with a screen as opposed to bonding with their partner. So over time, that also can create a rift in relationships.

Parker (00:30:53):
So maybe we can talk about some of the downstream issues of all this. We’ve talked about things that we hear at events. [00:31:00] We’ve talked about how it impacts relationships. We’ve talked about how to support a partner. We’ve talked about betrayal, trauma, what people are struggling with, but we haven’t really talked about some of those downstream effects yet On the bigger picture. And one of the things, I just did a presentation at a college just the other day, and one of the things that especially young people are really trying to wrestle with right now is ethical pornography. What is ethical pornography? Is that even a thing is even possible to create ethical porn, [00:31:30] even if it was possible? Are we still going to see the same impacts that the other research shows? What about ai, pornography, all of these kinds of things? And if it’s okay, maybe if I could just kind of give a recap of my thoughts on that and some of the things that we’re aware of from research, and then you can jump in at any time.

(00:31:54):
But one of the biggest problems is that, first, to be clear, even if [00:32:00] you could make ethical pornography, which let’s define that really quick. What is ethical porn? Ethical porn? Typically, people are trying to say pornography that ensures that people are of legal age consent. There’s no sexual exploitation. There’s no child sexual exploitation material that people are being paid fairly, that they’re being treated fairly. But somehow all of these issues that we talk about all the time about how porn impacts our society, if we just could solve all of that, if that was possible, [00:32:30] which we’ll talk about why it’s not the problem, is at the end of the day, it wouldn’t fix all of the other things that we talk about. People would still be impacted by pornography. The fact that it can be habit forming and escalating behavior impacts their mental health, it would still impact relationships.

(00:32:48):
What we love, how much we love, how we think about the people we love, and it would still impact our society in the other ways. We talk about whether that’s sexism or racism or any of the myriad of issues that we educate on all the time, [00:33:00] how we think about and treat people, how that affects our society, if that many people are consuming this kind of content. So we’ve kind of defined it. We’ve talked about why even if it was possible, those it wouldn’t solve these other problems. But aside from all of that, let’s address what this even means, what this looks like.

Natale (00:33:19):
And just for anyone who’s listening and not watching this video, every time we say ethical porn, we’re doing air quotes with our fingers because [00:33:30] we’re about to explain, but unquote, ethical porn, it doesn’t exist. It can’t exist.

Parker (00:33:37):
Okay. So we’ve defined, again, air quotes, ethical pornography and kind of made clear what exactly we’re talking about. And then we’ve talked about how even if ethical porn was possible that there are, it wouldn’t solve the other issues that we talk about, how it impacts individuals relationships in society. But now let’s talk about why ethical porn isn’t possible and some of those deeper issues. [00:34:00] So first tube sites like PornHub, where many people are accessing pornography, we’ve long known that they are problematic for some of the issues that we frequently talk about. They’re known for hosting sexual exploitation, material, sex trafficking, content image-based sexual abuse, commonly referred to as revenge porn, child sexual exploitation material commonly referred to as child pornography. Yes. Right. So [00:34:30] if you want to learn more about that, we would encourage you to read Nicholas the Children of PornHub that was written for the New York Times a few years ago after that came out. Literally millions and millions of videos were purged off of that site within 24 or 40 hours, something like that. Which

Natale (00:34:48):
Is so telling

Parker (00:34:49):
By the way, which is so telling of the kind of content that is available on these sites. Much of that has been known to be re-uploaded since, or more content of that same exploitative manner has since been uploaded that wasn’t the same content [00:35:00] that was removed, but is still just as problematic. So that’s already telling us right away that these tube sites are full of non-ethical material, no matter how their marketing department wants you to believe that ethical porn can be created. And then a few other things that we see frequently. We see that larger porn production studios often want to do things like an exit interview to ensure or at least try to demonstrate that the content was [00:35:30] somehow ethically made. So they’re interviewing performers after to say, Hey, were you a willing participant or are you comfortable? Are you safe? Were you paid? Did you agree to this contract? Things like that. Yes. And filming them on camera answering these questions. The problem is that we have many accounts on our website of former performers or current performers saying, I was essentially forced to say those things.

Natale (00:35:49):
Yes, I wasn’t given a

Parker (00:35:50):
Choice. I wasn’t given a choice. I wouldn’t be paid. I wouldn’t be hired again, they wouldn’t allow me to leave. Yes. Right. Being threatened with

Natale (00:35:59):
Violence ed, [00:36:00] or

Parker (00:36:00):
I didn’t say that I was here willingly. So then what we find is that people turn to alternatives from these larger porn sites or porn production companies. And that leads to things like OnlyFans. Again, the problem with OnlyFans, same things that we’re seeing on the tube sites. We see sexual exploitation, material, sex trafficking, victims videos, content of minors, child sexual exploitation material, and again, revenge porn or image-based sexual abuse. So not solving these problems, [00:36:30] we’re also seeing people literally being forced to produce content on those sites. They have a sex trafficker or a pimp who is forcing them to produce that content and then reaping all of the money. So huge problems with those. And then the other things we see are amateur pornography. And one of the things that people want to say is the smaller studios or partners who produce their own content are somehow free of this kind of exploitation.

(00:36:58):
The problem is that that’s [00:37:00] not possible. Actually research as far back as 2015 showing that in order to get people to view that content, the people that are creating this amateur content feel they have to follow the same trends that we see on the tube sites, but often make that content more extreme. So the problems that we talk about with extreme content and the way that that changes the way we look at and treat people and affects our society, these smaller companies, often [00:37:30] in the research we see that they feel they have to create that content and make it even more shocking, more exploitative in order to get views taken away to compete with these larger tube sites. So I apologize for talking so much, but I think that gives us a pretty good idea

Natale (00:37:49):
Of some of these issues. Yeah, it’s helpful context. And still at the end of the day, if someone wants to come back and say, okay, well, even if we could find a way to produce [00:38:00] all pornographic content ethically, which is hard to say with a straight face because it truly is absurd if we could produce it and disseminate it in a way that was ethical. And I will just add to that something that is a little complex with pornography is that even if someone were in a situation where they agreed to what was happening, they signed a contract, they felt okay with consenting to what happened [00:38:30] at that time, consent should mean that at any point you can say, actually, no, actually I don’t consent to this. And in the instance where a video has been recorded and uploaded to the internet, performers don’t have performers or someone who’s been exploited doesn’t have the option of saying, actually, I’d like this video to no longer be on the internet because their right to consent to that is taken away by a contractor or whatever piece is there, [00:39:00] which is a whole additional piece of this puzzle that is that really ethical?

(00:39:05):
It’s not. But even if we could somehow create this content free of any concerning unethical problems, porn still has all of the other problems that exist with it on the other side of things. And I do think let’s talk about those. Let’s reinforce what those are so people really

Parker (00:39:25):
Understand that. Maybe one more thing to add that actually I didn’t mention that’s really important is even if all of [00:39:30] us could be perfectly ethically produced, which it can, which it can’t, but if it could, but if it could, the other thing that we are neglecting is that because there’s a demand for this content and that demand means that that product is going to be created, that content is going to be created, that that means that miners will be exposed to that content. We know that minors will be exposed to pornography because there’s a demand for it to be created by adults or whomever, right? Yes. That means minors are being exposed. The other problem with that is anyone [00:40:00] who would seek to groom especially a minor into participating in inappropriate, illegal and unhealthy sexual behaviors, the first thing they’re going to you to do is show that minor pornography to normalize the abuse that they will experience. And the fact that there is a demand, everyone wants to say This doesn’t hurt anybody else, right? It does. The fact that there’s a demand for that content to be created means it exists, means that someone somewhere can use that same content that has a demand created for it to groom a minor [00:40:30] into participating in illegal, unhealthy, and inappropriate sexual behaviors.

Natale (00:40:34):
Yes, we’ve spoken to many experts who have said, so long as there is a demand, the supply will need to be created. And if the demand is for something that people otherwise aren’t interested in consenting to because it’s so extreme or violent or whatever that may be, then individuals will be often sex trafficked or exploited to meet that demand. So real quick, [00:41:00] just legally, the definition of sex trafficking is a commercial sex act induced by force fraud or coercion, or in which someone under the age of 18 is involved. So for anyone who is unaware of how often in the mainstream porn industry, which people think like, oh, it’s a mainstream industry. They’ve got their ducks in a row, they’re looking out for people. The number of former performers we have heard from who have said in the mainstream porn industry, forced fraud and coercion happens all of [00:41:30] the time, even for people over the age of 18.

(00:41:33):
But also, there is truly no way to guarantee for someone consuming pornographic content, especially when the category of teen is one of the most popular categories. And porn sites can claim that it’s for 19 year olds or 18 year olds. But there is content of people who look very young, and there is no way to guarantee that that person is of age, is of legal age to consent. [00:42:00] And even if they were, there is no way to guarantee that there was not forced rhetoric coercion involved. So sex trafficking happens within the mainstream porn industry so much more than anyone knows, but also often happens to supply the demand for these extreme forms of content. And then we go from there to the point you’re making about how that content can then be used to groom minors and also adults. We interviewed someone who told a story of [00:42:30] working with women who were being exploited in brothels, basically. And how one woman was being forced to engage in sex acts in that brothel while also video was playing pornography that had been made of her being exploited, was playing in that brothel as well to normalize some of the things that were being done to her as well. So [00:43:00] it just continues to snowball. Absolutely. When looking at how could this possibly be something we could produce ethically, because there are so many offshoots of these different things of why it’s not possible.

Parker (00:43:12):
Yes. And I know this is heavy, but if someone wants to have more examples of this or to hear from some of these people, one of the best things you can do is watch our Jane Doe video series. She’s going to talk about girls do porn, which if you’re unfamiliar with that, essentially [00:43:30] mainstream, and I would even say air quotes again, within the industry, they were, they were found to have essentially been for years, I believe, almost a decade, intentionally seeking out young, naive people, predominantly women who modeled on Instagram, had small followings, things like that, modeled fitness equipment, yoga, clothing, things like that, to fly out to participate in fitness photo shoots. And instead, when they arrived on set, they were forced to sign contracts, [00:44:00] drugged, raped, held against their will, locked in hotel rooms, filmed for days on end. And then that content was cut and edited in a way to look like it was consensual. Yes. Those are the kinds of stories that we’re referring to of why this is impossible.

Natale (00:44:13):
Yes. So when we’re saying there’s truly no way for a consumer to know how the content on the other side of something was produced, because it is designed to look a different way no matter how it’s produced. And just to add to that, many porn sites claim to have [00:44:30] age, age verification processes that as we know from PornHub removing millions of videos from their site after the Children of PornHub article in the New York Times, those processes are not really

Parker (00:44:47):
What they claim, what

Natale (00:44:48):
They claim to be. Yeah, absolutely.

Parker (00:44:51):
And I know we’ve dwelled on this for a long time, but maybe the last thing that we can just say is the new thing that we’re being asked is AI porn, right? Like, oh, well, [00:45:00] here’s all of these issues that you’ve explained pretty well. Why ethical porn’s not possible, but AI porn will solve all of this. Here’s why that’s not possible. Once again, the biggest thing that people don’t understand, I think a lot of people claim to be experts on ai, and I think none of them, except for the people who work for these company, are experts on ai, including myself. I’m not an expert, but what I do know is that in order to train one of these models, you have to expose it to the content that [00:45:30] you expect it to create. Correct. So right now, most of AI has been language models. Now there’s photo and video models coming out. In order for it to create this content, it has to process unfathomable amounts of data in order to learn how to recreate these things. So the biggest issue at the heart of AI porn is that aside from the issues I’m sure Natalie will mention in a minute, in order for it to create that content, it had to consume vast [00:46:00] amounts of pornography. That all is likely in the same categories as what we’ve just talked about, exploitative

Natale (00:46:09):
Content, commercially exploitive content. Yes. Especially if the argument some people are making, which is like, well, if we can artificially create this extreme type of content, then people won’t be exploited to be in it. But that is the very

Parker (00:46:22):
Problem to learn how to make that it had to consume that extreme exploitative

Natale (00:46:26):
Content. Yes. Extreme violent, exploitative content [00:46:30] to be able to produce that. And not to mention that AI or not this content will further normalize the behaviors that porn already normalizes. Now, it will fuel objectification of people. It will normalize and perpetuate the idea that people are objects to be consumed rather than people with feelings and thoughts and emotions, especially if we are removing it another degree and saying, well, is this really [00:47:00] what it is? And I think that’s also worth noting of how problematic that is.

Parker (00:47:06):
So we’ve talked about a variety of issues with ethical porn and AI technology being used to create pornography. The last thing that I will say is that this content is already and will be used to create child sexual exploitation material, which is inherently one of the largest problems with this. That means, first of all, that that needs to [00:47:30] digest exploited material of children likely in order to create that content. And regardless, no form of that content should exist. Whether it was made because the AI model learned digesting actual child sexual exploitation material or not, that content shouldn’t exist. Whether the person is even real or even exists or not, that content shouldn’t exist, people should not be consuming it. We know what we look at, what we consume impacts the way we think and treat and behave, and that over time [00:48:00] can shape people’s sexual desires.

Natale (00:48:02):
And just really quickly, will you clarify, because I think for some people maybe don’t fully understand what AI porn really is. Yeah, that’s a great question. And I think especially anyone who’s heard about DeepFakes or has an understanding of what that is, can you differentiate between the two? Yeah,

Parker (00:48:17):
Absolutely. So we have a lot of content on our website about DeepFakes because that technology has been around for longer and it’s evolved more, and we are now creating more content about the issues of ai. [00:48:30] So I think that is a good distinguishment, in my opinion. DeepFakes is now already becoming outdated, and AI is essentially replacing it, even though DeepFakes is still so young, deep faking something means that someone is taking, when it relates to pornography, well, DeepFakes in general, it means that someone has enough content of someone, which now these deepfake engines have gotten to the point that they don’t need that much content [00:49:00] of someone. A social media account usually is enough to create content of that person saying and doing things that they’ve never done. So that technology was pretty quickly adopted in order to create exploitative pornography of people who were unwilling and never consented for their material to be used that way, where they could get enough content from someone’s social media or photos or videos of an ex-partner or something like that to create content by essentially editing over the face of a person in [00:49:30] a porn video to be someone else’s face, whether that’s a celebrity, an ex-partner, a stranger, someone on social media, a minor.

(00:49:37):
That is a huge problem.

Natale (00:49:39):
So to clarify, it’s taking a real piece of content that exists. Yeah, real pornography. A real pornography video. Absolutely. And putting someone else’s face on, putting someone

Parker (00:49:46):
Else’s face in that content to make it look like they’re in the pornography. Yes. And then when we’re talking about ai, essentially this is something that never happened, never existed, but for the [00:50:00] model to be good enough to create that content, it has to digest a lot of pornographic content. So that’s where we’re kind of distinguishing. We’re seeing that this content can be used for very exploitative terms because to feed the artificial intelligence enough information for it to create this content, it’s already consumed exploitative content, problematic content that we’ve already talked about when we were talking about ethical porn. And then of course, [00:50:30] everything from celebrities to strangers to ex-partners to children like we talked about, child sexual exploitation material, being able to be created with this artificial intelligence. So things to be aware of for

Natale (00:50:43):
Sure. And not to mention that content still normalizes and perpetuates all of the other problems that porn does regardless of how it’s created. Absolutely, absolutely. And while we’re talking about different types of pornography that exist and with technology changing, something else we did get asked [00:51:00] and get asked often is about other forms of erotic content. So for example, literature or increasingly audio, audio books or books or just audio erotica. And I will start by saying there’s not a ton of research about those forms of pornography. Most of the research that we see is about mainstream pornographic content, primarily meaning [00:51:30] videos and images. But from the stories we’ve heard from people that content can have similar effects on consumers as what we’ve seen from pornography. So it is still something that is an experience someone is having with someone else rather than their partner. It can still have some of those same effects.

(00:51:55):
For some people we’ve heard from people who have said that can still become a compulsive [00:52:00] behavior or super normal stimulus, exactly. Supernormal stimulus. There are still components of what we know that can impact that, that can impact a consumer of those other forms of pornography in the same way. However, some of the pieces of what we’ve talked about, especially just now with ethical porn, individuals being exploited or something, obviously that’s not happening in a fictional literature or something that’s being made. So there still are some problems [00:52:30] with that. There still within that content can be normalization of things that are problematic or harmful in nature or are violent, these other things. But I want to be clear that most of the research we refer to is referring to mainstream pornographic content,

Parker (00:52:49):
Meaning videos that are often violent in nature on popular porn sites or other platforms.

Natale (00:52:55):
But that is kind of a segue into another question we had about escaping reality, [00:53:00] right? Essentially what any of these forms of pornographic content are being utilized for by most people is to kind of escape reality. Do you want to talk about that a little

Parker (00:53:10):
Bit? Yeah, absolutely. It’s really easy to use pornography to practice escapism. Many people seek out porn like we talked about earlier, when they’re lonely, stressed, sad or bored. And as we discussed, while these emotions aren’t always enjoyable, they’re normal and in some instances healthy. The problem with using porn to avoid [00:53:30] these emotions and our lives is it doesn’t really help in the long run. So porn is connected to, like we said, poor mental health, lower self-esteem, poor body image, less fulfilling relationships, and more loneliness. So we have a few articles on the website that you can check out on this topic if you’re stressed or bored or lonely. Is porn a healthy outlet for relief? I think that’s the title of one. Another one is Emotional Escape Fuels Porn Obsession. So a few options there to dig into this topic a little bit more, but yeah, absolutely. [00:54:00] People use pornography as a way to escape from reality to try to cope with what they’re dealing with. And we know that that isn’t a healthy solution in the wrong run. And just

Natale (00:54:09):
To add to that, I think too, if you’re using pornography to escape reality, it becomes your reality to some degree. So the content that you’re seeing that’s normalized becomes what you believe is reality. And in some cases, for example, there are several stories like this, but when we often think about, or I often refer [00:54:30] to as when we heard at a presentation where an individual had been on a first date had they were 16, or a teenager was on a date, and at some point in the date went to kiss their date and choked her and truly did not know what he had done wrong because he thought that’s what she would want because that’s what he had seen in pornography. And those things are happening [00:55:00] way more often than anyone would think. Any of us are aware, yes, than any of us are aware. And that’s where pornography is setting young people up for failure in a lot of ways because it does not portray realistic and healthy depictions of sex. And so a question we get asked about that is, where can young people learn about healthy sex other than something that’s a [00:55:30] form of escapism, like pornography?

Parker (00:55:32):
Yeah, that is a great question. So how can we help teens learn about healthy sex? Yes. All of the parents and adults listening to this podcast, you are probably hoping that we are going to give you this crisp, easy answer. That’s right.

(00:55:52):
But the truth is that ultimately it’s by having open, honest and ongoing conversations with our children. So [00:56:00] while we wish that there was a pill we could take or something we could watch or a book we could hand them and it would just fix all of this, unfortunately that’s not realistic. The solution ultimately is being educated ourselves, putting in the work, and then setting aside a time and a place to have these conversations with our kids, making them feel like it’s important, teaching both our family values and the scientific impacts of pornography. And realizing, like [00:56:30] we mentioned earlier, that this conversation, it’s not healthy or realistic to think it’s all going to happen at once. This can no longer be the one time sex talk that maybe some people got and they didn’t. I often joke with parent audiences when I’m traveling around the country and doing presentations, my parents never had the sex talk with me.

(00:56:46):
And now I work for a nonprofit and go around speaking to people about porn’s harms. If you don’t want your kid to end up like me, you should probably talk to them about pornography. And while, although that is a little bit funny, it’s also kind of true, we need to have these conversations with our kids [00:57:00] and we need to recognize that the awkward fumbling through these conversations of the past can’t be a solution anymore. And I don’t want to make anyone listening this feel bad, as we would always say. But I do want to point out a little bit of an example of why I feel like sometimes we’re falling short with these conversations. If you are a parent, you likely have been in a position in your life where you were interviewing for a very important job. And to prepare for that, [00:57:30] you learned everything you could about the company.

(00:57:32):
You were prepared to answer questions, you had questions prepared to ask the company. You likely had some form of a binder or a website or something to demonstrate past work. You’d prepared a resume. You had done so much prepare for that interview. And when we listen to stories from young people, we hear time and time again that these conversations at least in part awkward, simply because the parents aren’t [00:58:00] fully prepared that they could be doing more. If we’re doing all of that to prepare for a job interview, we can do the same things to help prepare for these conversations with our kids. We can learn the research and the data. We can be prepared to answer questions, to ask questions, to know where to start and where to end the conversation. How to help our kids where this conversation can evolve in the future. How to have age appropriate conversations at a variety of ages, right?

(00:58:24):
Telling a five-year-old that if they’re on a device or on a TV or something and something pops up that they don’t know what it is [00:58:30] that they can talk to an adult that’s not going to take away their innocence. No, that is a perfectly healthy thing. Age appropriate, a child or a toddler that’s age appropriate, and that conversation can evolve as those kids mature. So please just be comforted in knowing that there are resources available. We have access to more information than ever before. And that you can do this. Absolutely. You have the power to have these conversations and that you are the best person to have these conversations with your children.

Natale (00:58:58):
Absolutely. And that this isn’t a one-time [00:59:00] thing, as you said, it’s an ongoing discussion. The earlier you can start that in age appropriate ways, the safer they’re going to feel coming to you as they age with these questions and the more comfortable it’ll be. Often, you mentioned parents feeling a little awkward. Parents often feel much more awkward about this. The young people do, as we mentioned earlier, they know more than you think they know, and they want someone to help guide them through this. So by preparing so that [00:59:30] you don’t feel uncomfortable as an adult doing your research, it doesn’t mean you have to be an expert. You can always say, actually, I don’t know the answer to that, but I’m going to look it up and get back to you. You don’t have to know everything to be able to have healthy and productive conversations about this. If your

Parker (00:59:44):
Child tells you something you’re not expecting, if you are in a place, when you hear that, where you’re a roller coaster of emotions, please recognize it’s okay to perhaps decide, maybe not in every scenario that, Hey, you know what? I’m so glad you told me I love you. [01:00:00] Can we talk about this more tomorrow so that you can talk to the other parent? You can be better prepared. You can think about what those consequences need to be. Yes. Right? Because ultimately, what’s the goal of these conversations for them to continue happening? And everyone remembers a time where their parents either found out or we told them something that wasn’t ideal. And if they reacted negatively to that, what did we decide? We never, next time, I’m never going to, I’m not telling them again, never going to talk to them again, right? That’s ultimately not the goal. In those moments when we [01:00:30] feel stressed and anxious and upset, that sometimes feels like that is the goal. But in reality, the goal is to continue to have these conversations. And if that means we need to take a step back, tell them, I love you, thank you for telling me, and talk to ’em tomorrow about it or later or whatever that might be, then that’s a great step forward.

Natale (01:00:46):
And something to add to that is research shows, especially around the topic of pornography. Let me back up and just say, young people having questions about sex is completely normal and [01:01:00] natural. They’re curious. The answers they’re going to get if they Google this are going to be very different answers than if they come to you and ask you. You want them to come to you and ask you instead of Googling and finding the information that they will be taught from pornography, that’s inaccurate, misrepresented, or anything. Exactly. Or a stranger. So that being said, knowing they’re going to come to you, it’s really important that you know what research says about shame, which is that especially when it [01:01:30] comes to the topic of pornography, shame only perpetuates a struggle with pornography or pushes someone back to coping in this way. Typically, removing shame from this conversation altogether is going to ensure that you can continue to have those conversations that they will keep coming back to you and asking these questions. And I say that to add, if you as a parent have shame about your own struggle with pornography or [01:02:00] around this topic, then that’s something good to look at within yourself and address first, to be able to remove that barrier for yourself to have these conversations in a healthy and productive way as well.

Parker (01:02:11):
Yeah. And what does that look like to remove that shame? In addition to what Natalie said, it means being careful of the language that we use. It means helping them to understand the difference between guilt and shame. Guilt says, this is an unhealthy behavior. It’s impacting myself and other people, but I can change. I’m not alone. I’m not the only person. People love me. [01:02:30] I’m valued. Things can get better. I can change, I can heal. Whereas shame says, I’m broken, I’m bad. Something’s wrong with me. I’m the only person like this. No one cares about me. I’m totally alone, and this will never get better. And the biggest thing we can do is to help them understand the differences in those things and tell them we love them and work with them through this process. Yes.

Natale (01:02:53):
And that will ensure that they come back to you for these questions, and that you can be the one to help them [01:03:00] learn not only healthy information about sex, but also healthy and productive ways to navigate these very, very complex and complicated issues that they’re dealing with as young people growing up in the digital age, including pornography, well, et cetera. And if you’re experiencing shame, you’re not a alone. And we invite free yourself with that shame, yes, to free yourself with that shame. And there are a lot of resources that can help you or your child who may be is struggling with pornography, and there are resources that can [01:03:30] help you learn how to have these conversations. So just a reminder, again, you can go to ftd.org/resources and you’ll be directed to articles, videos, documentary, more episodes of this podcast, things you can listen to, learn about this, as well as resources to help overcome a struggle with pornography, help you have productive conversations, help you book a live presentation if you’re interested in bringing us to your community to speak. And then also, [01:04:00] if you are a survivor of sexual abuse or sexual exploitation, if you are struggling with a compulsive habit, if you’re struggling as a partner of someone, there are resources that can help you no matter how this issue may be impacting you. So know that you’re not alone. Know that there is help, and please visit our website and check out some of those resources and many other resources that are likely available to you locally, wherever you live, [01:04:30] but also that are out there.

Parker (01:04:33):
Well, we hope that the conversation today, we, especially at the beginning of this, covered some difficult topics, but we’re proud of our fighters for submitting excellent questions. These are things that need clear answers. We’re proud of you for submitting those. We hope that the hope at the end of this is that if you go to ftd.org/resources, you can find the support you’re looking for, whether it’s a tool, a resource, a blog, whatever it might be. [01:05:00] There has never been a better opportunity to make a change, to get the help you need to have conversations with your kids. There’s never been more help ever before.

Natale (01:05:09):
And just to know that, I just want to reinforce this is something we’ve heard from countless people who have been in a struggle with pornography, who have created change or been in a relationship is some struggle. Things have gotten better. It’s impacted their life, and there is hope on the other side of this. So if there is one thing you need to hear today, please [01:05:30] know that your efforts as a fighter matter. Your efforts to create change on these issues matter. And together we’re going to be able to create some positive change in the world on these issues.

Parker (01:05:41):
And maybe if you have more questions that you would like to see us answer in the future, maybe down the road, we can do a part two of this. Feel free to send us those on social media or email them to us at [email protected].

Natale (01:05:53):
Absolutely.

Testimonial (01:05:54):
Thanks, Parker.

Parker (01:05:55):
Yeah, thank you.

Promotional (01:05:59):
Help us celebrate [01:06:00] 15 years of fighting for love by repping the movement in some of our conversation starting gear. From March 15 through the 21st., you can shop everything in our online store for 15% off using code FTND15. It’s the perfect time to stock up on your favorite fighter gear. Plus, when you shop 100% of the proceeds from your purchase supports our mission to educate individuals on the harms of pornography and sexual exploitation. Get your gear before it’s gone. [01:06:30] Shop our anniversary sale at ftnd.org/shop. That’s F_T_N_D.O_R_G/shop. Join our community of monthly donors, helping others recognize how porn can impact them, their relationships, and their communities. Join Fighter Club for as little as $10 a month to help us continue our efforts. Visit ftnd.org to learn more. Listen to the following testimonial and how Fight The New Drugs resources help one [01:07:00] couple overcome their struggles with Porn.

Testimonial (01:07:04):
Fighter Club has given me hope. I’m always needing a reminder that healing is possible and that people can change. No one is stuck watching porn forever. My boyfriend and I have grown so much stronger because of our teamwork, and he is so much healthier and happier now than ever. If it weren’t for Fight the New Drug, we wouldn’t have gotten the resources that we needed to fight. It has been amazing being on the receiving end of hope, but it is even more fulfilling to be on the giving end.

Outro (01:07:30):
[01:07:30] Thanks for joining us on this episode of Consider Before Consuming. Consider Before Consuming is brought to you by Fight the New Drug. Fight The New Drug is a non-religious and a non legislative organization that exists to provide individuals the opportunity to make an informed decision regarding pornography by raising awareness on its harmful effects, using only science, facts and personal accounts. Check out the episode notes for resources mentioned in this episode. If [01:08:00] you find this podcast helpful, please consider subscribing and leaving a review. Consider Before Consuming is made possible by listeners like you. If you’d like to support Consider Before Consuming or any of the educational resources we shared in this episode, you can make a one-time or recurring donation of any amount at fntd.org/support. That’s F_T_N_D.O_R_G/support. Thanks again for listening. [01:08:30] We invite you to increase your self-awareness, look both ways, check your blind spots, and consider before consuming.