Introduction (00:03):
For today’s episode, we sat down with Sarah Brewer. Sarah is a life coach who has helped over 1000 people quit porn through her coaching program. When Sarah first started working with clients, she found that many of them wanted help with unwanted porn consumption, which led her to focus her coaching program specifically in helping clients overcome pornography use. In this episode, Sarah helps us to understand the role of shame in perpetuating the cycle of porn [00:00:30] use other ways we can become stuck and what it means to be sex positive. With that, let’s jump into the conversation. We hope you enjoy this episode of Consider Before Consuming.

Fight The New Drug (00:47):
Well, Sarah, thank you so much for being here with us today in the studio. I’m so excited to talk with you.

Sara Brewer (00:52):
Thank you

Fight The New Drug (00:53):
For our audience to get to know a little bit about who we’re talking with today. Can you tell us a little bit about who you are and kind of what your [00:01:00] role is?

Sara Brewer (01:00):
Yeah, so my name is Sarah Brewer. I’m a life coach. I help people who want to quit viewing porn. I own overcome Pornography for Good, the podcast, I’m the host of that. We had, we have over a million downloads that I just saw. So we grew pretty quickly. We get lots of views, just rebranding to the Center for Overcoming Pornography. And what we offer is just lots of coaching programs. We have programs for people who [00:01:30] are struggling with porn. We have some spouse resources, but not as many. Anyways, we’ll get some of those up and running, but that’s basically who I am, what I do,

Fight The New Drug (01:37):
So. Awesome. And how did you get involved in this work of coaching Around pornography specifically?

Sara Brewer (01:45):
Yeah, I started coaching college age students and a lot of ’em would start working with me and then be like, actually, what I really want to talk about is porn. And pretty quickly I was able to see some patterns, especially [00:02:00] the shame patterns that I felt like hadn’t been addressed and we’re really making the porn use worse. And so that’s one of my taglines is shame-free sex positive. And I’m sure maybe we’ll talk about that, get into what that means, but because the shame is what keeps people so stuck in porn.

Fight The New Drug (02:18):
And in so many of your resources, you do talk about shame. You have great resources that address that. But how does shame keep people from changing or breaking out of their cycle of porn use? Can you talk about that a little bit?

Sara Brewer (02:29):
Yeah, for [00:02:30] sure. So our emotions, I talk about it like fuel. So the emotion that we put into our body that we have in our body is going to create fuel for our actions. If you’re filling up your gas tank in your car, the type of fuel you put in is going to help you go or not go. And so shame as an emotion, it does not offer adequate fuel to really do anything honestly, especially to continue to quit pouring. So the shame spiral and the shame cycle that we see lot of people get stuck in [00:03:00] is they view porn, they have some thoughts about it. They think something along the line of, what’s wrong with me, shame is this, there’s something wrong with me. So there’s some beliefs, thoughts about that. The actions from shame, and we learned this from Brene Brown, the shame queen is hiding and avoiding.

(03:19):
And so you’ll see that a lot with people who are struggling with porn. They don’t want to tell anyone. They don’t want to admit it. They’re ashamed, they don’t want to talk about it. They don’t even want to admit it to themselves. So hiding, avoiding, [00:03:30] hiding, avoiding. And then what we know about porn too is that it’s an escape from emotion. And if you’re using porn to escape emotion and you’re feeling shame, which is the lowest vibrating emotion, just awful, what are you going to escape the shame with? Probably more porn. And also there’s these ideas too, well, I suck already. I’m already the worst. And so the porn isn’t going to solve the shame, but it offers a reprieve for a minute that your brain is like, oh, well, I suck anyways. [00:04:00] And then the cycle continues. View porn, think something wrong with me, hide a avoid view, porn, spiral, spiral, spiral, spiral. And if a lot of people, a lot of people, if they can just stop the shame cycle, can make tons of progress and quit porn.

Fight The New Drug (04:18):
And I mean, I do want to go back to, you talked about being pro-sex, and I do want to go back to that in a minute. But while we’re here talking about shame, how does someone break that shame cycle? [00:04:30] How does someone overcome the shame? Where do they even begin that process?

Sara Brewer (04:35):
And so it’s going to start with looking at your thoughts and beliefs about yourself, about what it means about you If you view porn, some of the conditioning, maybe there’s just sexual shame. I mean, most of the time there is sexual shame, which would be more broad, not just about the porn. It’s going to be rewriting these beliefs that you have about yourself. Some inner work. A lot of people when they want to quit porn, they think, oh, I got to do the work [00:05:00] to not look at porn. But really where the real change comes is that work of changing how you see yourself. Yeah,

Fight The New Drug (05:07):
That’s so big. And are there other roadblocks besides shame that are pretty common in keeping people from overcoming or getting help with compulsive porn?

Sara Brewer (05:17):
Yeah, the willpower cycle.

(05:23):
Yeah, that’s another really big one that I talk about. A lot of people, they swing back and forth in this pendulum [00:05:30] between willpower. So have an urge to view porn or some sexual urge. No, no, no. Go away. Push away. Push away. Willpower. Willpower myself out of it, not going to think about it, not I’m going to go distract myself. I’m going to run away from this. That’s exhausting. Swing into, okay, given, okay, let’s get our energy back. Willpower, willpower, power, swing back into just giving in. And people, I mean they don’t even know there’s another option. It’s like, what else do you [00:06:00] do? And so this is where it can really start to feel like I’m going to be stuck in this forever, is because of this pendulum that they don’t know what to do about. And that’s where we get into mindfulness, and that’s when we can learn there are other ways to handle these urges. I can talk more about that in depth if you’d like me to. Yes, please do. Yeah, I would love for you to stop me. I’ll just talk. No, do can talk, please. So there are three things you can do when you fill an urge to view porn. And we’re talking compulsive urges or non compulsive urges, whatever. You [00:06:30] can use willpower, which is what we just talked about, what that’s like. It’s like holding a beach ball underwater. And so when you hold a beach ball underwater, what does it want to do?

Fight The New Drug (06:39):
Float up to the top.

Sara Brewer (06:40):
Like pop up. And the deeper you hold it, the higher it’s going to pop up. This is with any emotion too. I talk about this with anger and the mom of two littles, and I remember postpartum after my second baby, there was a day I was walking around going, I’m not going to feel angry. I’m going to be patient. I’m going to be perfect. I’m going to be loving. No anger, no anger, push away all the anger. And then at the end of the day, it [00:07:00] just exploded. And so that’s an option. The second option is just the giving into it. We fill it, we do what it says to do. Oh, here’s a nurse to view porn. All right, let’s go. And then third option is allowing this emotion without pushing it away and without just doing what it says. And so it’s a technique and it’s a mindfulness skill that a lot of us will learn through meditation, other mindfulness skills, and there are other ways to learn it, but it’s this idea of allowing emotions [00:07:30] and urges, like sexual urges to be there to come in. And then you treat ’em like visitors where they’re coming in and out and you can be here and you’re uncomfortable, and I hear you, and I’m breathing into you, and I’m not yelling at you or trying to ignore you, but I’m also not letting you just boss me around.

Fight The New Drug (07:52):
And that’s something, why is that so difficult for us to do as humans, to sit with an emotion?

Sara Brewer (07:59):
I think it’s conditioning [00:08:00] around emotion and that emotion is bad, or we’re just afraid of emotion. I think it’s just a new thing where emotional resiliency and emotional management and therapy has become mainstream where we learn, there’s also conditioning, especially for men, and it’s not just men who struggle with porn, but I do get a lot of men, and especially for men, there is conditioning that we got to be tough, can’t fill our emotions. We got to just be strong. This is a fight. [00:08:30] This is a fight. And that mindset can often create that willpower instead of the mindfulness, letting it in and out.

Fight The New Drug (08:42):
So if someone’s wanting to explore mindfulness, especially as a tool to help with a compulsive porn habit, where do they begin?

Sara Brewer (08:52):
Yeah, I would point you towards my podcast. I have tons of resources and I’ll walk you through it. And [00:09:00] there’s a document that we offer right now, it’s called a podcast roadmap that shows you over 150 episodes, but it’ll show you the ones that are the most important for this. So you can go and listen to those episodes that’ll walk you through it. But simply, if I were to look at someone right now and tell ’em how to start right now, I would teach ’em stop, drop, and breathe. So stop notice that you’re feeling an urge. A lot of times people don’t even want to admit it to themselves or they’re moving too fast, they’re not even aware of what’s going on in their body. Stop. [00:09:30] I’m feeling an urge to drop into my body. Where am I feeling this? What does it feel like? Is it tight? Is it heavy? Does it feel antsy? Does it feel slow drop into the body? We’re just going to focus on the body, what it feels like, and breathe into it. Okay, this is uncomfortable and I’m going to breathe into the discomfort instead of pushing the discomfort away.

Fight The New Drug (09:55):
And would that same process work for feeling and sitting [00:10:00] in and combating shame as well?

Sara Brewer (10:01):
Yeah. Yes. Yeah.

Fight The New Drug (10:04):
And I think that’s something so important to talk about with this because we often talk about how shame keeps people in this cycle, but I think we don’t always or often enough talk with people about how to combat the shame or where to even begin. So I think that’s just helpful to note that that kind of process to become comfortable with that discomfort, with shame and with an urge to consume pornography can be so helpful,

Sara Brewer (10:29):
So good, so [00:10:30] good. And people are going to feel nervous to do that, right? If I feel it and it’s just going to overtake me. And so this is where practicing it and trying it out, you’ll learn that no, you can feel it and then also not believe everything it’s telling you. So the shame or stop dropping, breathing, feeling the shame. It’s telling me all these things about myself. I’m just recognizing it and I’m not believing it [00:11:00] takes some practice in some work. But yeah, you can do that.

Fight The New Drug (11:03):
Now you’ve said not all porn use equals addiction. Why don’t we want to classify all compulsive porn use as addiction?

Sara Brewer (11:12):
So one of my big values is that we’re result focused.

(11:18):
And so what’s getting people the best results? We can get into the arguments you probably know better than anyone. There’s the arguments between is it an addiction, is it not an addiction? There’s all the different, but what [00:11:30] we want to look at is the results. And so if we go back to our feelings are generating our energy to keep going and to take action, we want to look at, if I think I’m addicted, how do I feel and how is that affecting me and how I show up here? For some people it might be a great thing, it might be a thing that is helping them do whatever they need to do to quit

Fight The New Drug (11:57):
To acknowledge the addiction,

Sara Brewer (11:58):
To acknowledge

Fight The New Drug (11:58):
It, not the addiction itself, [00:12:00] but to acknowledge it.

Sara Brewer (12:03):
When I ask people in my audience, how do you feel when you think I’m addicted? A lot of times they’ll say, hopeless, powerless. I’m never going to be able to quit. Yeah, those emotions, we’re just not going to be able to change from those emotion. And so it can be really, really empowering. And I’ve had people who quit porn and are able to take control just by realizing, oh, I don’t have to call this an addiction. Maybe for me, this is actually [00:12:30] a habit and this feels a lot more manageable as a habit.

Fight The New Drug (12:36):
And I think that’s so important to acknowledge with this discussion around shame as well. And kind of where to begin, because I do think that is a piece of the equation that some people who consume porn certainly do self-identify as having an addiction. But some, it is a compulsive habit or an unwanted compulsive sexual behavior. And I think being able to identify that can help [00:13:00] someone kind of find the right starting point, as you’ve mentioned. So I think that’s

Sara Brewer (13:03):
Helpful. Lot of, I mean, my clients, they do the addiction recovery work, and it just doesn’t work for a lot of ’em. And so it’s really freeing to be like, oh, well, maybe it’s something else for me and maybe we can look at this in a different way For me.

Fight The New Drug (13:17):
And so for anyone who’s listening who’s maybe tried some of that work and thinks, well, I’m still struggling with this, but that didn’t seem to be the solution, maybe taking an approach of not identifying as an addiction [00:13:30] is a good starting point. And then where do they go from there if someone’s identified in that way.

Sara Brewer (13:36):
So we want to look at the roots of the porn use. A lot of people will try to quit just with filters, which are great. I’m going to use those for my kids. Sure. Great tools, filters, trying to avoid it, trying to exercise instead of the urges. All good things, but they’re kind of band-aid solutions. So we want to look at the root and if we’re weeding, [00:14:00] we’re pulling it out by the root, not just the leaves. So that’s going to be the emotional management around it, recognizing that the porn use is often an escape from an emotion. And so let’s look at the emotions that you are escaping and address the emotional resiliency, which is the mindfulness that we’ve talked about. So learning the mindfulness skills, and then there’s the identity piece. So how do I see myself? What do I think about myself? Oh, this one’s so big. How we see ourselves is [00:14:30] going to determine how we act. And so it’s like all this deeper inner work that’s going to make the changes.

Fight The New Drug (14:40):
And for so many people, they’re exposed to pornography so young. And so as far as identity goes, this being a way that they have self sued or something they’ve sought out to cope with stressors or something, it is kind of part of the identity [00:15:00] for so many people for it to be present. And so I guess I’m curious because I think it’d be beneficial for anyone listening to know. Can you share any kind of anecdotes or when you’ve worked with people who’ve been able to remove that piece of their identity and create a new identity without pornography, what that journey looks like for them?

Sara Brewer (15:22):
Yeah. Well, I do, and I do these interviews on my podcast called What’s Possible Interviews with people who do it, who will go into that for an hour [00:15:30] or so and really share that journey. But I have clients, a client who I’m thinking Quinn, who’s now a coach in my program. He loves it so much. He quit at age 50 and able to, it’s about so much more than quitting porn. It’s about now healing relationships, now doing work that he really loves in the world. Other clients who, [00:16:00] okay, we’ve learned this, but if porn isn’t this all encompassing thing, if it’s not the biggest thing in my identity right now, what else am I else am I creating? So books, writing books, finally asking that person out on a date that they haven’t let themselves ask them out because they haven’t felt good enough asking for promotions or quitting jobs or finding new ways. It’s like instead of spending [00:16:30] our time consuming porn and stuck in consumption or stuck in the trying to fix the consumption, we’re spending our time creating

Fight The New Drug (16:40):
Growth,

Sara Brewer (16:40):
Growth, creating this beautiful life that is available to us because so much of our time isn’t focused here anymore.

Fight The New Drug (16:51):
Yeah, I love that. I think that’s so important. And I do want to go back to earlier we had talked about as an organization, we’re an anti type born organization, [00:17:00] but we are also prolo and bro sex. So what does it mean to you as a coach, especially coaching around pornography to be sex positive?

Sara Brewer (17:08):
So physiology, we’ve just got that normal natural body response of a sexual urge. Even if it’s compulsive, it still falls under just physiology neutral, not good or bad. You train your brain to have, maybe you probably didn’t mean to, but we inadvertently train our brain to have these compulsive urges for porn. That’s just physiology not good or bad. And so the more [00:17:30] that we demonize the sexual urges and the desire for sex, the more power it has over you, and the more you’re going to view porn and have more porn binges,

Fight The New Drug (17:42):
And then end up in that shame cycle as well that we discussed earlier.

Sara Brewer (17:45):
Exactly. Yeah, exactly. It’s like sugar people who are like, oh, wanting sugar is bad. I shouldn’t want sugar. It’s kind of a shameful thing. That’s when we end up binging the sugar in our pantry late at night. So it’s a similar idea.

Fight The New Drug (18:00):
[00:18:00] And so do you have any advice maybe for, and parents, obviously parents play such a significant role in whether or not a young person develops kind of a healthy mindset around sex or a positive mindset around sex or does kind of build that shame around it. Do you have any advice for ways that parents could kind of positively and in a healthy way address these topics so as to not fuel [00:18:30] that cycle of shame around sex?

Sara Brewer (18:32):
Yeah, yeah, right. Well, and too, because the best way to protect our kids from unwanted porn use is what we’re seeing in research is, and I’d be curious what you guys have found and what you see, but it’s sex education. Yes. Because a lot of it’s curiosity when you’re young. So sex education, sex education, sex education.

Fight The New Drug (18:50):
And I think it’s worth noting, a lot of surveys show that young people seek out pornography to learn about sex, but pornography is actually the worst form of sex education. [00:19:00] But young people don’t know that. And so unless adults are talking with them and explaining that to them, that is the education that they get.

Sara Brewer (19:07):
Have you seen the New Zealand commercial? That’s what I think of when I hear that. So good. So the sex education. So it’s going to be a little bit of a process, especially if you didn’t grow up hearing about sex in a positive way. There are so many good books that you can just read with your kids body parts, naming body parts, how they are just being open [00:19:30] and honest with your kids. I want to change this with you. I didn’t really grow up learning about sex this way. I want to change this with you. I’m sorry if I’m a little awkward sometimes, but please know, I want to talk to you about this. And so if you have any questions, I am totally open to sharing.

Fight The New Drug (19:44):
I think that’s such a good approach to just acknowledge. Parents actually often feel more uncomfortable talking about sex than young people do because they have questions and they would answers. So just to acknowledge, I’m sorry if I’m a little uncomfortable or a little awkward talking [00:20:00] about this, but I would like to, I think that’s such a great way to just kind of move through that

Sara Brewer (20:03):
Kids are forgiving and they’re like, oh, I love you. You’re so cute. Mom and dad, I know Kristen b Hodson has some courses on how to help talk to your kids, and some book recommendations. And then what I would say about the porn use is we have to recognize that kids are going to see porn.

Fight The New Drug (20:22):
It’s not if, but when.

Sara Brewer (20:25):
And it doesn’t have to be a huge [00:20:30] deal. And I say that worried what some people might think, but we offer our kids so much grace around so many other things that we can also offer ’em grace and recognize, oh yeah, these are little budding teenagers. They have to figure this out. And it’s okay if it takes some time.

Fight The New Drug (20:52):
And I think it’s worth noting what we see too is so much of the time, sometimes parents have such a significant reaction [00:21:00] to their child seeing pornography because they view it as their own failing of some sort. They’ve let this happen to their kid. It makes the child feel like their parents are angry with them. And so then if a child says, okay, my parent is angry with me, they’re obviously going to no longer have that conversation or disclose things to the parent. So I think hide, avoid, hide, avoid. Exactly. So what you said of it doesn’t have to be such a big thing I do think is really important because [00:21:30] making it something that is, you’re glad they came to you to talk about it. That is what you want. You want them asking you questions and not googling them. So being able to tell them that and to open that ongoing dialogue with the way that pornography is more accessible, affordable, available, and anonymous than ever before, this is not going to be a one-time conversation. It is going to need to be an ongoing conversation. [00:22:00] So I think having that safety and being a safe and approachable person is so good. I’m curious to know, because you work with so many kind of college aged individuals, do you hear from them about ways they wish their parents would’ve responded if and when they found out about their pornography consumption? Or do many of them think their parents have no idea?

Sara Brewer (22:23):
Well, and I hear this from all ages of my clients, I have clients from 18 to 65 [00:22:30] all in that range, and I hear it from all of them. So it’s not even just the college age students. The things that are typically the most detrimental is when the reaction is shame inducing or very fear inducing. Oh, oh, you viewed porn, you got to be careful. This could ruin your whole life. How I might approach it would be like, okay, here are the things that we want to look out for. Here’s why it’s not a healthy thing for you to be watching. [00:23:00] You’re going to be fine. We’re going to work through this. Here’s some other healthy, if you have any questions, let me know. Here’s some other healthy things that we can do. We can teach ’em the emotional management stuff too. So Daniel Tiger, I have two little kids. So we watch Daniel Tiger, when you feel so mad that you want to roar, take a deep breath and count to four. It’s like they’re teaching some of these mindfulness techniques with anger

Fight The New Drug (23:24):
Instead of having a reaction that induces the shame, have a reaction instead that teaches them [00:23:30] how to combat their own shame that they maybe would experience later on, just like

Sara Brewer (23:34):
You would if you found out your kid was, if they cheated on a test,

(23:42):
If you’re like, how dare you yell at him. We didn’t go do all these things. That’s going to create kind of a rough response instead of let’s sit down and really have a conversation about why this isn’t a great thing. Why you want to be careful here. Your kid hits his sibling. It’s the same thing. Kids are learning [00:24:00] and they’re also going to need to learn about sexuality and learn about that. So it’s okay. It’s like, okay, we’re okay with our kids making mistakes in other areas. Let’s be okay with them here too and realize and recognize that they’re going to be okay. They’re not going to ruin their whole lives if they’ve had some run-ins.

Fight The New Drug (24:18):
And I do want to ask you, because you mentioned the age range of the clients that you have, and even noted earlier that you had one of your coaches that quit at age 50. I do think it’s important to note that it is never too late to

Sara Brewer (24:30):
[00:24:30] Address

Fight The New Drug (24:30):
This if it’s something that is unwanted in your life.

Sara Brewer (24:34):
Never. And not 50, like 65.

Fight The New Drug (24:36):
Amazing.

Sara Brewer (24:37):
Never,

Fight The New Drug (24:38):
Never too late. And also, we sometimes hear from parents who say, well, I struggle with pornography myself, so I don’t really even know how to approach this with my kid. And we have a response to that, but I’d love to hear how you kind of address,

Sara Brewer (24:54):
I mean, my response would be, this is where in parenting, a lot of it is doing our own inner work, [00:25:00] and then it leaks over into our kids. So it’s the same thing. If we want our kids to learn how to love themselves, we need to learn how to love

Fight The New Drug (25:10):
Ourselves so that it’s not too late for you to do the work as a parent. But also something we sometimes add to that is, well, who better to talk to your kid about the harm of porn than you because you’ve experienced the impacts that it can have on you or your relationships. So if anything, that only makes you more qualified [00:25:30] to be able to address this with your young people. Totally. Yeah. I think that’s an important reminder for any parents who maybe are struggling to know that that doesn’t mean they can’t still address this.

Sara Brewer (25:43):
Yeah. I mean, the reality is that porn, it’s everywhere. And we can change the narrative and the story around it where instead of it now being this thing that’s ruined my life, it can be this thing that has been this catalyst for me becoming [00:26:00] this amazing person. The things that I’ve had to learn, this pushed me into learning these emotional skills, these mindfulness skills, these identity skills, and holy cow, this is making me a powerful person.

Fight The New Drug (26:14):
That’s such a good point and an important shift. And also I would just add to that it’s a journey. It’s not like an on off switch overnight. So I think too, sometimes feel like sometimes people feel like they have to have fully addressed it and then have [00:26:30] an extended period of time of no consumption to be able to feel like, okay, I am now able to speak out about this or talk to my kids and help. And it’s like you can do both things simultaneously. You can be growing and healing while also on this journey I think.

Sara Brewer (26:46):
So. Good. Yeah, of course. Of course.

Fight The New Drug (26:49):
So good. An important reminder for people. Yeah, really good. So we’ve talked a lot about the nuances of why people can struggle for a long time, but what encouragement, [00:27:00] what you give to someone who has maybe struggled with pornography for most of their life at any age that they’re at right now, we’ve discussed if they decided tomorrow that maybe they wanted to dip their toe in the pool of exploring change, what encouragement would you have for them?

Sara Brewer (27:18):
Yeah, there’s nothing wrong with you. And also it might not completely be your fault that you haven’t been able to quit. And it’s not that you’re not strong enough, and it’s not that you’re not [00:27:30] good enough, and it’s not that you’re not righteous, whatever that is. For a lot of people, it’s like they’ve been trying to fix the microwave with the manual for the refrigerator. And so no one can do that. No matter how smart you are, all the things, especially if you’ve used a lot of fear and shame, that’s just not going to be a tactic that works. So I would just, maybe it’s not mean that I’m not good enough, and maybe I just need to find an approach that’s going to give me long-term success.

(28:00):
[00:28:00] And I can also feel good about myself now. I don’t have to wait until I quit to feel good about myself. I don’t have to wait until I quit to live my most beautiful life. And in fact, if I feel good about myself and live my most beautiful life now, that’s going to exponentiate the process of quitting. So we don’t have to, what’s the word I’m looking for? Beat ourselves up or torture ourselves [00:28:30] until we quit. And so that’s what’s going to keep a lot of people from dipping their toes in to try again is like, oh, okay, I’m going to go back into this place where I suck, remind myself how much I suck. And so it doesn’t have to be that way.

Fight The New Drug (28:44):
And some of that kind of self-flagellation almost is that a lot of people do is just rooted in shame, feeling like, well, I don’t feel good enough because I struggle with this, so I have to keep beating myself up until I am [00:29:00] healed. And I think that’s really important to acknowledge that removing that actually is going to help get to where you…

Sara Brewer (29:07):
I’m not shame free. I want everyone to feel good. I do, of course. But because two sexual shame is really the root of so many dangerous sexual actions and the root of a lot of the ickiness.

Fight The New Drug (29:23):
Is there anything else that you would want to share that we haven’t talked about yet?

Sara Brewer (29:27):
Just there’s so much hope.

(29:29):
I was [00:29:30] talking to my new dentist and I was telling him what I do, and he’s asking me all these questions and he was just saying, yeah, what do people even do? It just feels like, oh, it’s like something that’s never going to go away. And I just said to him, there’s so much hope. And that’s the thing. People are going to brag about running a marathon or making money or all the other accomplishments. People don’t want to brag about quitting for it, but there are a lot who do, even if it’s not quite as loud as these other things. That’s why I do a lot of the what’s possible [00:30:00] interviews on my podcast, lots of hope. Just take it step by step. Nothing’s wrong with you. And yeah, there’s really beautiful life ahead,

Fight The New Drug (30:09):
And it is something to be celebrated. We get messages from people who say, I’m one week or one month or one year, and we always want to celebrate every time whatever kind of benchmark someone is at, because it does take a lot of hard work, but also inner work and healing to be able to start to overcome that. And [00:30:30] it does lead to something that is healthier and more fulfilling in so many ways. So it should be celebrated. And if you don’t feel like you have anyone in your life who you can be celebrated by, then reach out to us or to you.

Sara Brewer (30:41):
Yeah, I would love to start changing that narrative of celebrating that. Yeah,

Fight The New Drug (30:46):
I agree entirely. Well, Sarah, thank you so much for being here with us. I feel like our listeners, whether they’re parents or current consumers or former consumers or anywhere else on the spectrum of people that can be impacted by this [00:31:00] issue, will benefit from hearing this conversation. And if someone wanted to further look into the resources that you have, listen to your podcast, can you direct?

Sara Brewer (31:08):
Yeah. So the two free resources that I love to send people to is my, I have a training. It’s like the shortest one. If you just want an hour to dive into some of the stuff it’s called How to Quit Being Porn Without Using Willpower, you can find that sarah.com/masterclass. The website name is going to be changing at the beginning of the year, but it’ll still redirect. Perfect. It’ll be Center [00:31:30] for Right, but so it’ll Redirect. And then Sarah brew.com/podcast roadmap is here’s the most important, best podcast episodes to listen to get a really great idea of what’s going on.

Fight The New Drug (31:41):
Awesome. Okay. Well, thank you so much for your time. It was so nice to get to speak with you.

Sara Brewer (31:44):
Thank you. Loved it.

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Outro (32:49):
Thanks for joining us on this episode of Consider Before Consuming. Consider Before Consuming is brought to you by Fight the New Drug. Fight The New Drug is a non-religious and a non legislative [00:33:00] organization that exists to provide individuals the opportunity to make an informed decision regarding pornography by raising awareness on its harmful effects using only science, facts and personal accounts. If you’d like to learn more about today’s guest and the conversation we had, you can check out the links included with this episode. If you find this podcast helpful, consider subscribing and leaving a review. Consider Before Consuming is made possible by listeners like you. [00:33:30] If you like to support Consider Before Consuming, you can make a one-time or recurring donation of any amount at ftnd.org/support. That’s F-T-N-D.O-R-G/support. Thanks again for listening. We invite you to increase your self-awareness, look both ways, check your blind spots, and consider before consuming.

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