Jane Doe: they’ve earned a lot of lives. Mine included, and it was on there for years. And I emailed for years to get it taken down and no, no one listened. And then it just gets reposted with my name. And uh, pornhub’s like, oh, they, they just don’t even get back to you.

Garrett Jonsson: There was just no response when you reached out to them?

Jane Doe: Uh, I think I had one response in five years.

Garrett Jonsson: Do you remember what the response was?

Jane Doe: Uh, “We removed to the video.”, and then it was just reposted. And so many girls, we, we had that in discovery. Um, we, we had to forward the emails and like, “Hey, how many times do you think you emailed them? How, how many requests did you get?” And I’m like, I could, could see how many views one of the videos had. And it was over 5 million and I’m like, “Great. And how many times have I emailed them to take this down?”

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Garrett Jonsson: My name is Garrett Jonsson, and you’re listening to Consider Before Consuming, a podcast by Fight the New Drug.

And in case you’re new here, Fight the New Drug is a non-religious and non-legislative organization that exists to provide individuals the opportunity to make an informed decision regarding pornography by raising awareness on its harmful effects using only science, facts, and personal accounts.

We want these conversations to be educational, uplifting, and hopeful. As we sit down with experts, influencers, activists, and people with personal accounts, we cover a wide variety of topics that may be triggering to some- listener discretion is advised.

Today’s episode is with Jane Doe. Today’s episode is part two of a two part series, co-hosted with FTND’s Editorial Director, Keri; we sat down with Jane Doe and Cozi, her emotional support dog. Jane Doe grew up in Washington with a loving family, never expecting that she’d be victimized by one of the larger trafficking schemes to date, GirlsDoPorn. GirlsDoPorn was a popular “amateur” porn production company that garnered well over a billion views, ranked around the 20th-most popular channel on Pornhub, and reportedly generated an estimated $17 million dollars in revenue. What GDP’s viewers likely did not realize was that many of the women featured in their videos are actually victims of sex trafficking—including Jane Doe. GDP posed as an “ethical” porn company, and went unchecked for over a decade. While the official production company is defunct as of 2020, the videos it produced are regularly reposted all over the internet. GDP owners and employees have been charged with sex trafficking, child pornography, as well as conspiracy to commit sex trafficking. One co-founder pleaded guilty to sex trafficking, while the other is on the run and on the FBI’s most-wanted list. The GDP case shows that sex trafficking doesn’t always look like movies involving young women being kidnapped, taken across national borders, and forced into sexual servitude. The Trafficking Victims Protection Act (TVPA) defines sex trafficking as a commercial sex act “induced by force, fraud, or coercion, or in which the person induced to perform such act has not attained 18 years of age.” The TVPA and the GDP case help bring awareness to the prevalence of sex trafficking, and it’s connections to pornography. During this conversation we get to hear from Jane Doe’s Mother, learn more about what happened on and off the camera, and discuss what it’s been like to pursue legal action against GDP and Pornhub

With that being said, let’s jump into the conversation, we hope you enjoy this episode of Consider Before Consuming.

Jane Doe: Okay. My mom’s ready for us to call her whenever.

Keri: Oh, wow. Yeah. Audio’s good?

Jane Doe’s Mom: [phone ringing] Hello.

Jane Doe: Hi, Mommy pie. How are you?

Jane Doe’s Mom: Good.

Jane Doe: So we are on the podcast. We’re alive right now.

Keri: Hi, Mom!

Jane Doe: Everyone saying hi, I call her mommy pie. So what do you want to say about human trafficking and healing and how it’s affected me?

Jane Doe’s Mom: Oh, it’s affected every aspect of your life. And it’s been really hard to sit back and watch you heal because it’s like, it’s always like two steps forward. One step back, you know, five steps forward, 10 steps back. It’s just, it’s so hard because you’re so loved and it’s just, it’s been devastating for everyone.

Garrett Jonsson: I, I don’t know if you can hear me, but I just state that I think it’s cool that you said that you have to sit back and let her do the healing.

Jane Doe’s Mom: You know, we’ve wanted to just make her better [laugh] because, you know, she’s our child and she’s our family, but, um, all we can do is be a soft place to land and just always, you know, try to remind her that she’s loved by all of us and she’ll forget, and, and she’ll be mad at herself and, and then we remind her and it’s just, it’s constant. It’s just been really, it’s been really, really hard and sad, but we’re also just so proud of her for who she is and, and in spite of it all, it’s just been, it’s been tough.

Garrett Jonsson: Yeah.

Jane Doe: Can I ask you a question, mom?

Jane Doe’s Mom: Yes.

Jane Doe: How did, um, thinking that I had chosen to do porn and knowing that I was trafficked, um, like change your mind about what had happened, how did it make you feel and, and think differently?

Jane Doe’s Mom: Well, I think at the beginning, none of us could imagine, none of us could put into words, human trafficking, because it just seemed so like, it didn’t cross our minds. It didn’t cross your mind. It didn’t cross any of our minds, the words, human trafficking, they weren’t in our…

Jane Doe’s Grandma: We didn’t even know what it was.

Jane Doe’s Mom: They weren’t even… it wasn’t in our capacity to understand.

Jane Doe: There’s my grandma.

Garrett Jonsson: There wasn’t vocabulary for it.

Jane Doe: That’s my grandma in the background too. Hi, Nanny Pie.

Jane Doe’s Mom: Yeah. And so, um, that was, that was just, we didn’t even consider it. We just thought just like you, it was just like, “Oh yeah, she made a mistake. Okay. We move on from here.” The first second I found out, I just thought I’m never gonna smile again. It just is, it was so sad. And, and that’s kind of our logic at the beginning, in the first 24 hours. And then when we found out it was human trafficking, it was just, it was just sad. It was just, just, I mean, it was all sad, but it was even more sad that someone could take advantage so badly of, of our daughter and of so many girls and how rampant it is in the, in the world.

Jane Doe: Yeah.

And that’s why we, we say, we hope that knowing what’s happened to me has ruined porn for some people.

Jane Doe’s Mom: Yeah. Yeah, totally.

Garrett Jonsson: We, as an organization and as individuals, we just want to state how grateful we are for, for you and also for your family. And we feel privileged that you’re here today. And like I said earlier, you literally, by definition, are making the world a better place by being here. So thank you.

Jane Doe’s Mom: Well, I wish we, I wish none of us had to be here.

Garrett Jonsson: Of course.

Jane Doe: Yeah. But now we get to educate and hopefully ruin porn for a lot more people.

Jane Doe’s Mom: Yep.

Garrett Jonsson: Break that fantasy.

Jane Doe: Yep.

Jane Doe’s Mom: Cause it’s just like, there’s so many victims even, you know, and, and I did, I mean, we’ve all learned so much, you know, I mean, there is a tiny silver lining in every, in every horrible thing, but that is the thing we all have learned to not judge and to, to realize that we have no idea what people are going through.

Jane Doe: Thank you, Mom. I’ll call you when we’re done. I love you so much.

Jane Doe’s Mom: Okay, love you.

Jane Doe: Bye.

I think that’s the, the best, uh, message that my whole family’s taken away from this. Um, usually don’t know what someone’s going through. Um, and whether someone is doing porn voluntarily, like what have they been through in their life? Men and women alike- everyone’s craving intimacy, we’re all craving, acceptance. And pornography is such a, a false “quick fix”, um, to, to try to feel something other than what you’re feeling. Um, but it’s all fake and men get addicted, women get addicted. It’s rampant. It affects everyone in our society. You don’t know the people that have been in it, uh, what they’ve been through in their lives, or if they’re there by choice. Um, when I talk to two guys or girls alike, I don’t say, um, “Are you addicted to porn?” As often as I say, “When was the last time?”

Because so many people have this idea of addiction like, “Oh, well I can’t, I’m not addicted. I can stop any time I want.” Uh, but I, I challenge people to really try to push themselves and heal, feel intimacy, um, feel desire or acceptance in other ways, learn, learn to accept yourself. Um, I think so many times we crave acceptance and validation from other people and the real issue is, do we, do I want me? I haven’t been able to really have a healthy relationship because I didn’t feel good enough for anyone. I felt so broken and damaged that I just ignored red flags. I, uh, accepted false judgment because I felt broken and unworthy of love. And when we look internally and find that within ourselves, especially through therapy. Really highly recommending therapy or we’re reading therapeutic books. There’s so many different tools and resources out there that we didn’t have before.

Like this podcast, like 10 years ago, uh, or how 13 years ago when I was raped when I was 15, I, I didn’t know that there was help out there. I didn’t know that it was so prevalent. I wasn’t the only one and it didn’t make me broken forever. I have to remind myself about that constantly now. I’m not broken. I’m not damaged goods. And if other people wanna label me that way, if other people wanna choose to look it up, um, and, and take part in that human trafficking, whether it’s knowingly or not, I, I have to find that worth within myself and that desire to keep living and, and any trauma victim, we’re all damaged to some point, but we’re not damaged goods. We’re not broken beyond repair.

Garrett Jonsson: Yeah.

Jane Doe: I, I’m really grateful that my family is here for me now. And I finally let them in and let them help.

They were really great. And I, I was so angry and bitter for years that no one saw through the facade.

Garrett Jonsson: Mmm.

Jane Doe: I’m. Like, “Don’t, don’t you guys know how much I’m hurting?”

Keri: Yeah.

Jane Doe: And then when, when it finally came out, they were like, “Well, why didn’t you tell us?”

Garrett Jonsson: Mm.

Jane Doe: And I, I had to really look internally, um, and work through that on my own. And I still have, uh, days where I I’m like,
“Oh, well, I, I feel like they’re always judging me.” I feel like I can’t have like close relationships or, um, have a healthy, romantic relationship. Cuz I, I feel like I have to find that self worth within myself. Um, rather than just constantly seeking validation elsewhere. And I think that’s what pornography does for a lot of people it’s validating. Um, and they, they feel like it’s okay, but you don’t know what that person’s been through.

You don’t know. I’m sure millions of people have watched the video of me and had no idea they were participating in the human trafficking. And I love that the name of your podcast is consider, consider before consumption. I think that’s so important. It’s like with any addiction there there’s help out there there’s resources. There’s no judgment. And just because you think you might not be addicted to pornography doesn’t mean you aren’t. I really had to learn to not numb and run away anymore. I got to the point where I would just take a handful of Xanax and drink a bottle of alcohol. I was trying anything I could to not feel and working through trauma, working on addiction, working with counselors, it’s painful, but it is so much better than living your whole life running from pain.

Garrett Jonsson: Yeah.

Jane Doe: You have, you do have to actually allow yourself permission to feel.

Garrett Jonsson: And I don’t think we should feel shameful about wanting to feel numb because I think that’s our body naturally…

Jane Doe: Yeah, we don’t wanna feel pain painful.

Garrett Jonsson: Yeah. It’s a protect… it’s a coping mechanism.

Jane Doe: Yeah. You don’t, you don’t wanna run towards it.

Garrett Jonsson: So we shouldn’t feel shameful for that. I also really like that. You talked about how like self love is the foundation of healing. And I just want to state that I hope you are your biggest fan because you are a champion and you’ve already healed so much, but I see even more healing in your future.

Jane Doe: My mom and I used to say like, “We’re gonna, we’re gonna punch those triggers in the face.” Like, uh, someone, a man checking me out at the grocery store or getting a disgusting harassment message.

Garrett Jonsson: Right.

Jane Doe: It happens all the time. There are constant triggers around us. Everyone has them. Um, I had certain smells that were a trigger, certain like songs. There were so many different things where immediately I would go into that, like fight or flight. And I freaked out and I, I used to run from it. And this past year I went to, um, Hawaii with my mom and my grandma the year before I was completely suicidal. I was trying to numb the whole time I was there. I, I didn’t spend a lot of time with my family. I was just so ashamed of who I was and everything that I was feeling.

Every trigger was shameful and terrifying and made me feel more broken and damaged. And this time, last time we went, I had just read something, um, by a therapist. I don’t, I don’t even remember who it was and I really wanna give them the credit. So I’ll have to look into this, but, um, he said, embrace it and thank your body for allowing you to know what needs to be healed. Thank your body for reminding you that you have work to do. We all do, it’s okay.

Garrett Jonsson: I love that.

Jane Doe: So I started doing this thing where I laid on the ground and I put one hand on my heart so I could fill my heart beating to remind me that I, I was here and I, I was alive. I put one hand on my stomach so I could feel my breath and I laid with it. And I sat in that pain for a moment. I put a timer on my phone. I think the first time was 10 minutes cause I couldn’t bear it anymore.

Garrett Jonsson: Wow.

Jane Doe: And I sat with those triggers and I let myself feel anger and regret and disgust, shame- I let myself feel everything for just an amount of time that I could handle. I embraced it. I let myself feel the pain and it was very uncomfortable and not something that I enjoyed, but the more I do it, the easier it gets, the better it gets and the less those triggers control me.

Garrett Jonsson: Yeah. You’re I think it’s on a neurological level, you’re rewiring your brain to absolutely identify triggers as like you can go from dreading a trigger to being grateful that your body gives you those triggers. But because it is a defense mechanism.

Jane Doe: Yes.

Garrett Jonsson: You’re like re you’re saying, “Okay, calm down.”

Jane Doe: Yeah.

Garrett Jonsson: “You’re okay. I’m okay. I’m in a safe place.”

Jane Doe: Yeah.

Garrett Jonsson: That’s cool.

Jane Doe: Like my mom said on the phone, there have been times where it’s been two steps forward, one step back, five steps forward, 10 steps back. It’s been, um, a roller coaster and, and just having this, um, be such a constant looming thing. Not only the video, but like the ongoing trials.

Garrett Jonsson: Right.

Jane Doe: We have, we’ve done so many trials so far and we still have so much to do. And Michael Pratt is still on the run. So hopefully one day we can bring him to justice as well. Um, before I,… I dreaded it. In 2019, I was numbing. I was terrified, I wanted to legally change my name. I wanted to get like a nose job, dye my hair. My hair was brown in the video. My hair will never be all the way brown again. It’s just one of those things that I have to do for me.

Uh, and I hate that. They took that from me. I hate that. They made me ashamed of my name, of my body. They took so much and I was letting them back then I was letting them control my life. And, and I did somehow I finished nursing school. But even at that time, like I couldn’t be proud of myself because there was this big, dark, ugly past that I thought I could never, ever move on from. I had no hope. I, I had, I have nieces and nephews that I adore and sometimes even now I have to picture their faces, if I wanna hurt myself or I have to snuggle my dog. Um, I got her in 2019. Um, so now I have coping mechanisms that I don’t run from. I don’t try to numb every time I slip up all the time, I still have the self doubt.

I still have this shame. I have, um, I write poetry and that that’s my outlet and some of it’s dark and I would never show it to anyone, but I let it out instead of burying it. And I, 2019, I was terrified, um, of who I was. I was terrified of talking about what happened. I, I let it completely. Yeah, it, it owned every aspect of me. It was, it was always there- it was a constant, daily thing. I, I would get, um, physically violently ill, anytime I got a disgusting message or a phone call. Uh, anytime I was really reminded of the trauma and I still owned it a lot back then, I still blamed myself for, for being this naive girl. And, and now we have had some justice and that does offer some like resolution. It offers some hope. I think a lot of the girls, we, and especially just like having this incredible group of women, um, I have a few of them in my, in my favorites, on my contacts and we’ll have nightmares and we’ll call each other in the middle of the night.

And my phone ringer is always on for a few of these girls because we can call each other. “Hey, I just got this disgusting message. I’m feeling really triggered.” It’s so incredible having a support system of people that actually understand so many times when you’re hurting people be like, “Oh my gosh, I totally get it.” And you’re like, “No, you don’t at all.”

Garrett Jonsson: Right. You can show empathy. And, and at the same time, not say that, you know what, what it was like.

Jane Doe: Absolutely. Yes. And, and everyone, we all have our, our, our own struggles, our own trials. And like, it’s not just about our bodies. It’s um, we don’t always know what other people are going through. The only thing we can do is, is be like a listening ear and a soft place to land. And I have that now with my family, it’s gotten so much better the last three years. I didn’t have that when you and I spoke before, um, I’m incredibly grateful for that. I got divorced and that was a healthy thing. It was an unhealthy marriage for both of us. It was toxic. So I have, I have different support systems than I had then. I have, um, hope for the future. I have a willingness to actually change and actually work on things. I think like the first step for so many different things is recognition like in Alcoholic Anonymous.

Garrett Jonsson: Right. It’s awareness.

Jane Doe: Yes. Awareness, any sort of addiction you have to first admit you have a problem. Or like you have a broken leg, you look down at your leg. “Oh my gosh, my leg is broken.” That’s the first step.

Garrett Jonsson: Right.

Jane Doe: And then you go, I, I like comparing things to medicine because it makes so much sense to me. And sometimes I have to think, “Okay, this trauma is this awful, like blistering, totally infected wound. And no one else can see it, which is really hard. They, they don’t understand my pain. They just see the ugly, the ugly part of it. They don’t understand how infected it is. How, how much it’s hurting me, how much it’s killing me.”

Garrett Jonsson: Mhm.

Jane Doe: And, and when you’re doing things like therapy, it’s the next step. It’s not just recognizing, “Oh my gosh, I hurt.” Or “I have this problem.” It’s “Okay. I don’t wanna hurt anymore.”

Garrett Jonsson: Right.

Jane Doe: “And I don’t wanna have this problem.” And you can numb for so long and you can, you can die.

Garrett Jonsson: Eventually you have to open up the wound, and clean it out.

Jane Doe: You do. And, and it’s painful and gross. Yeah, we call it debridement. It’s disgusting. Uh, it smells and it’s ugly. And that’s how I, I feel about, um, healing of any sort, childhood trauma, the human trafficking. Like the video is so different because I know that it’s never going away, but I can get stronger. And that’s the only way, like, I, I can even survive. I’m terrified to have children. I’m terrified that one day, someone’s gonna go up to my kid at school and show them a picture, and “Was this your mom?” And, and it’s just like, um, the, the boy from high school sending me the video, like, “Oh my gosh, look at you.” And it’s like, gosh, they don’t, they don’t see the, the horrible infection and or how much it hurt. They don’t see the blood on the sheets.

Garrett Jonsson: Mhm.

Jane Doe: Me running and screaming and fighting. It just looks how, uh, they wanted it to look. They edited it, they edited all of it. They, they made me redo scenes and, and it just kept going until I agreed. And at this point I’m like, okay, I can keep living my whole life, really caring and letting that own me, because there’s always gonna be someone out there that calls me a porn star. And it’s always gonna make me sick, but I can, I can smile. And I can say, “I hope you heal.”

Garrett Jonsson: Right. The haters are loud, but healing is real.

Jane Doe: Yeah. And when people are judging and hating, they just haven’t learned that lesson yet. My, my mom and I, when she said, um, it’s taught us not to judge. Now when I have, if I, if a boy, um, says, “This is too much for me.” I don’t, I don’t judge him. I don’t say like, “Well, what a jerk you are. Like, you’re judgemental.” I just think like, “Okay, I don’t blame you. You have your own healing to do. We all do.” And I can’t constantly put that back on myself. I was carrying the weight of the world and just drowning.

Garrett Jonsson: Right.

Jane Doe: It’s, it’s hard being transparent and vulnerable with people. You’re, you’re always so scared that they’re going to reject you.

Garrett Jonsson: Right.

Jane Doe: Like, everyone’s really scared of rejection. We all, we want validation and love and…

Garrett Jonsson: Yeah.

Jane Doe: And good hugs. Um, and we say hurt people, hurt people.

Garrett Jonsson: Yeah.

Jane Doe: And I like, even these men that trafficked us, I, I have so much anger. Um, but I can’t live my whole life like that. I have to let it go at some point. And, and that’s not condoning their actions. It’s not at all saying what they did was okay. What they did was atrocious. And it’ll never be okay. They ruined lives, but I, I don’t have to carry it around with me everywhere I go. I can, I can let go of some of that pain I can heal.

Garrett Jonsson: Yeah.

Jane Doe: Clean out the wound and take those antibiotics.

Garrett Jonsson: Yeah. You mentioned AA. And the first step is like recognition or awareness.

Jane Doe: Yeah. Yeah.

Garrett Jonsson: The last step of AA, if I’m not mistaken, I’ve never done it, but it’s to help someone else.

Jane Doe: Yes.

Garrett Jonsson: The 12th step is to go help someone else. And I think that that is what you’re doing today.

Jane Doe: That’s exactly. That’s the reason I’m here. That’s the reason I went and testified. It wasn’t, uh, my mom, she was very, very wary of me, testifying. She was like, “You just slit your arm open. You just tried to die. You can’t, you can’t emotionally handle it.” And there is, uh, like “You can’t pour from an empty cup.” You do have to make sure you take care of yourself and, and heal before you help others. And I’ve made that mistake of, of spreading myself too thin so many times, but now I’ve done the work. It’s always gonna be work. I’m always going to be healing.

Garrett Jonsson: Yeah.

Jane Doe: And that’s okay.

Garrett Jonsson: Yeah.

Jane Doe: But I’m still here. I’m glad I’m still here. I tried really hard many times to not be, I wanted to be done, but I’m so grateful. I have the career. I have, I’m grateful. I get to help people. I’m grateful for the opportunity to be here today. Um, so that we can help anyone know, like you’re not alone. If you’re hurting, there is hope.

Garrett Jonsson: Yeah.

Jane Doe: It might not feel like it in the moment. And working through the pain sucks. And that’s like a really rude awakening. Sometimes we want, we want everything to be butterflies and rainbows, but there’s a lot of shit.

Garrett Jonsson: Yeah. Cleaning out the wound is not fun.

Jane Doe: No, it’s not fun, but it’s okay. And it’s worth it.

Garrett Jonsson: Yeah.

Jane Doe: I’m really excited to testify again. Um, I feel stronger this time and I, I can deal with the harassment. It’s not fun. It’s horrible. And I know I’m gonna have way more hard days ahead, but it’s better than it was in 2019 and 2025 will be better. And hopefully I’ll feel whole enough. And my cup will be full enough that I can really look for ways to, to serve others.

That’s um, I’m working on getting my sexual assault, nurse examiner license.

Garrett Jonsson: Wow.

Jane Doe: And I think that that’s gonna be a really triggering, hard thing, but I would so much rather have someone give me a rape kit that says, “Hey, I’m so sorry that you’re hurting. I have been through trauma too. We don’t compare our trauma and you’re gonna hurt and you’re not alone. And you don’t have to be alone.” I think when we’re hurting, we isolate a lot.

Garrett Jonsson: Wow.

Jane Doe: I did so much of that. And I didn’t let anyone in because I was too afraid to hurt them or, or too afraid of, of judgment. Um, but it’s okay to ask for help. It’s okay to let people help you.

Garrett Jonsson: I think that’s a beautiful thing that you wanna become a, is it referred to as a sane nurse?

Jane Doe: Yeah. A sane nurse. Yeah. That’s my, my ultimate I’m. I wanna get my doctorate in nursing, so I’ll be a DNP eventually, but I can, I can do a lot of volunteering with sexual assault victims.

Garrett Jonsson: Yeah.

You will literally be able to give trauma- informed care, not from an educate, like, you didn’t have to learn, even though you will learn about those things, you also experienced them.

Jane Doe: Yeah.

Garrett Jonsson: And I think that will give you power to help other people.

Jane Doe: Yeah. In a very, um, twisted way. I’m incredibly grateful.

Garrett Jonsson: Wow.

Jane Doe: Uh, some of the girls from trial, we, we were talking the other day and we were, it was a year anniversary since we put Garcia away. And we were saying, ah, “I hate what brought us together.” But my, one of my best friends, I always say, “You’re my person.” And, and it’s incredible that she can be like, “Oh, those nightmares. I had one last week, but it’ll get better. Let’s talk about it. Let’s heal together.”

Garrett Jonsson: That’s great.

Jane Doe: It’s, it’s so good to have support and to let people support you.

Garrett Jonsson: Yeah.

Jane Doe: Cause we don’t have to do it alone. Porn is a lonely thing. You sit there alone and you watch it. I’m living proof, almost wasn’t living proof, but right now I’m living proof that it’s not always consensual. I did not consent.

Garrett Jonsson: Mhm.

Jane Doe: I am not a porn star. I was never a porn star. No matter how the world may perceive me, I couldn’t even say that out loud for a long time because I blamed myself, but I was taking advantage of, I was human trafficked and it’s not okay.

Keri: Yeah. I’d really love, um, for you to, uh, talk more about the trial details, however much you can share. But first I wanna go back to a point that you just said about how it was not consensual. Cause I think that that’s a big misconception in the world today that if you sign a contract, you are consenting. Um, but the reality is that valid consent can be rescinded at any time. And even if you sign a contract, um, and you don’t feel like if a performer doesn’t feel safe in an environment,…

Jane Doe: Mhm.

Keri: … if they’re not able to rescind their consent, it’s not true consent. It’s coercion.

Jane Doe: Mhm. I, I think it’s the same thing with rape.

Keri: Yeah.

Jane Doe: You can consensually begin to have sex. And if at any point you’re done or you say stop, if that continues, I would consider that sexual assault completely.

Garrett Jonsson: Oh, yeah.

Keri: Correct. Correct.

Jane Doe: And it’s the same, same with trafficking.

Keri: Yes. What we say is that a yes is only valid if no is a legitimate option.

Jane Doe: Oh, I love that. I have goosebumps, you can’t fake those.

Keri: No. For you, no. Was not a legitimate option. So no, even though you signed your name on the dotted line under duress, by the way.

Jane Doe: Yeah. Under duress. Under pressure. Yes. Yeah. Terrified.

Keri: Exactly.

Jane Doe: Didn’t get to read what I was signing. Had zero idea what I was signing. Yes. That was…

Garrett Jonsson: And I would say that because, sorry to interrupt you, Keri, do you wanna finish your thought?

Keri: No, I just wanted her to emphasize that just because there’s a contract doesn’t mean it’s, it’s consensual.

Garrett Jonsson: Yeah.

Keri: And that’s true. Even for voluntary porn performers as well.

Jane Doe: I agree with that fully. That’s so huge. And I think that that’s why some people are like, “Oh, well they agreed to it. They, there were contracts. It’s a, it was a company.” Um, like PornHub fought us on that too. Uh, and it’s like, “No. I never got to read a word of that contract. I was completely pressured. I was terrified. I was locked in a room.”

Garrett Jonsson: Right. They misrepresented themselves.

Jane Doe: Absolutely.

Garrett Jonsson: It becomes a fraudulent contract once they…

Jane Doe: Yeah.

It, yes, we, we fought that in court. Completely fraudulent. Yeah. Men, two men standing right over your shoulders, sitting at a desk “Sign here, sign here.”, flipping the edge of the page “initial here.” And I I’m like, “No, no, I want a copy of this. I wanna read it.”, “No, no. Now, now.”, and, and then threatening.

Garrett Jonsson: And “If you don’t, it’s gonna get worse.”

Jane Doe: Yeah. Yeah. “If you don’t, you’re, we’re gonna tell everyone you’re a porn star.”

Keri: Um, so obviously there have been a lot of things in your life that have gone on since the trafficking you’ve had trial after trial and now there’s even more, um, upcoming.

Jane Doe: Yeah.

Keri: So there were two civil lawsuits that I’d like to, um, for you to briefly have the opportunity to speak about and that was the GirlsDoPorn civil lawsuit. And what, what is the difference between the Girls Do Porn in civil lawsuit where you got the ownership rights and the $12.7 million that…

Jane Doe: We’ve never seen? [laughter]

Keri: … you’ve never seen a dime.

Keri: Yeah. And then there was a second trial, um, that was a civil lawsuit. And where there were now 60 Jane Does, who jumped on and sued the parent company of Pornhub.

Jane Doe: Yes.

Keri: Um, what is the difference between those two trials?

Jane Doe: Um, the first was just going after GirlsDoPorn. It was just trying to get the ownership rights. It was trying to get them to take the website down. Like the, the things that we found out in discovery that I can’t specifically name, like the amount of money that they made in their time was just disgusting. The amount of views and subscriptions or subscribers that, um, they had was just disgusting. And then they marketed it on all these other websites, uh, repost it on all these other websites, put our personal information down so that they would get more views so that we would get harassed and it would make them more money.

Garrett Jonsson: They are literally profiting from trafficking.

Jane Doe: Yes. In, including in the, um, in the first civil lawsuit, all of our Jane Doe numbers were listed online with all of our personal names, personal information. That’s not something that I’m not okay saying because it’s the internet- you can find whatever you want wherever you want. Uh, there was a, a website called like po____ks or something where they posted episode numbers and posted girls’ real names and whatever social media they had. I deleted all of my social media for years. I had like this big yoga Instagram that I was really proud of. And I thought like, “Ah, I’m inspiring people. I I’m sharing like positive messages.” It was something I enjoyed. And I went completely dark. I deleted absolutely everything, changed my number.

We know that they, um, they created fake, uh, Facebook profiles. And it’s, it’s all in discoveries. I think that this is public knowledge. So I believe I can talk about it. And he tried to reach out to girls that weren’t part of the trial yet to figure out what was like going on. And then girls that were in the trial, the way that I even found out about the trial was from a random message I had, I had just barely created a Facebook, um, page again, I went to a retreat for sexual assault victims and there were all these darling women that were like in their late forties, late fifties, and that, uh, generation, they love Facebook. And I was like, “Oh, I’m terrified to go back on social media.”

And I did it just so that I could stay in touch with these women. And I was grateful for that. And I got this message from an unknown account named Liam. And it was saying like, “Hey, have you heard of Carrie Goldberg? I know you’re one of the GirlsDoPorn victims.” Um, Carrie Goldberg was, uh, a New York attorney. She’s the one that got in touch with Brian Holm, uh, and helped us start this whole thing. Um, she was great when I did actually contact her, but he was telling me about the case so that he could try to figure out what was going on. And he’s like, “Let me know when they reply to you, send screenshots, I’m really emotionally invested in this. I really care about what happened to you. And I, and I’ve talked to [this girl and this girl] and told them to join the case.”

And like in the end it ended up benefiting me, um, getting in touch with them, but it was them trying to catfish us.

Garrett Jonsson: Wow.

Keri: Creepy.

Jane Doe: Yeah, it was pretty disgusting. And then this is just something I’m gonna keep having to deal with.

Keri: And it was years before, um, the start of that entire litigation to the end of it. Correct? It was like, you know, cuz they started exploiting women in, was it 2014?

Jane Doe: I, I think it was actually 2011 because it happened to a girl that I went to high school with, that was a year older than me, when she was 18. And later I found, we found out, “Oh my gosh, it’s the same people.”

Keri: Yeah. Well that’s just absolutely guts me that it took so long because the, the first lawsuit closed out and the decision was handed down in January, 2020.

Jane Doe: Yes. I was part of the first lawsuit. Um, but they, they had two different groups of girls like originally, uh, I think it was like 11 of us and it had already been going on for a solid year.

Keri: Yeah.

Jane Doe: Before I even found out about it and joined and um, by the time I did, they’re like, “Oh, well now we have like 22 girls. So I guess we’re, we’re meshing everything together.” And then, um, eventually with the Pornhub, the mind geek lawsuit, we had 60 girls.

Keri: Yeah. And that was filed in December, 2020.

Jane Doe: And yeah, we didn’t even find out until the fall.

Keri: Yep.

Jane Doe: What was happening with that… I, I feel like everything that has gone on with court has been like years. Like Wolfe has been in jail for years before finally agreeing to plead guilty. And he, um, this is something I can say the judge, uh, rejected the original plea deal. They wanted to give him a maximum of 13 years. And she said, “Absolutely not.” And that was gonna be the only way that he was gonna plead. And eventually he did take the new plea deal. So we will have our time in court when we get to give our trial statements again with the same judge. And I was really impressed by that judge. She, she got emotional during Garcia’s, um, during his trial, she was incredible. They wanted to give him less time. The, uh, his attorney kept saying, “He’s not a rapist.” Like, uh, cuz every girl, when we, when we talked about our, our testimonies, we were like, “When I was raped…” Because that’s how we all consider it. It was non-consensual sex. That is raped.

Garrett Jonsson: Right.

Keri: Correct.

Jane Doe: And, and his, his attorney got very defensive about that. And the girls and I are all just looking at each other, like “What?” and getting, getting just riled up. And he’s a registered sex offender for life. Why would you be arresters sex offender? If, yeah. It, it was, uh, there were parts of that entire experience that were extremely upsetting. But I think that the judge was really incredible when she gave her, um, her final judgment. She told us all, it’s public knowledge. The, the court documents, she told us all how emotional the case was and, and how it was a, a really difficult one for her. And I just really appreciated her compassion during that. I’m really grateful that she’s taking on more. So she’ll be handling, I believe, with Wolfe as well.

And hopefully that should be happening in the next couple of months. I know they’re trying to expedite it, but normally we don’t know when something is happening. Uh, during my entire 20 months of nursing school every month, I, I had to like go to the administration and say like, “Hey, I might have to go testify during this FBI trial. We don’t know when it’s gonna be.” And then it kept getting pushed back and pushed back and pushed back. And, and my school was super difficult to work with. And, and then people at school found out and people wanted to say I was lying about it. And “Oh, I found her video. I, I think she’s just a porn star and, and lying and embarrassed.” And I’m like, “It’s a, it’s a freaking FBI trial.”, but there wasn’t any proof yet. Uh, and now that there’s proof.

It’s like, people want to talk about it. It was just on NBC yesterday. Two of the girls talked about it. Um, it is unfortunate when it’s only one or two girls talking because I, I don’t think it’s fair to speak for everyone. I think it’s fair to say we’ve all been through immense trauma. We’re all hurting. We’re all affected by this forever, but I’m not gonna compare my trauma to someone else’s and say, what I went through was worse, uh, because I didn’t know what I was going out for. Or someone was 18 instead of 22 or there there’s, it’s just semantics. And I think that that gets so convoluted and, and inappropriate. So I think when you lump all of the Jane Does together, it’s not fair. And that’s what the media’s doing right now. It’s, uh, triggering. It’s kind of disgusting because it’s just encouraging more harassment. Everyone’s looking up the videos extra.

Garrett Jonsson: Wow. That’s true.

Jane Doe: Because it’s getting media attention. It’s like the more publicity, the worse it is. Uh, but the, the most that we can do is keep trying to fight. I’ll definitely be testifying again. Um, I, I didn’t feel a strong last time, but I did it.

The day after we testified, uh, a bunch of girls and I went to the beach and I think that that is one of my very favorite days of my life, because we had this moment of just like peace, knowing that we all had this like bond that is totally unbreakable, a bond that you never wanna have with someone. But we finally had someone that could connect. So we look for ways that we can uplift each other and just having that support system that so many trauma victims don’t get to have. I’ve been incredibly grateful for. I’ve had really incredible friendships; we’re always worried about someone spiraling and “Hey, how can we reach out? How can we help each other?” And, and “Hey, I’m triggered. Are you triggered?” Uh, I had a phone call with a few of them last night because of the Wolfe plea deal. And, and we’re all like, “Oh goodness, the, the NBC article and the VICE article, like this is a lot, this is a lot of publicity. How are you doing?” And we were able to chat and just validate each other and make sure we’re okay. I fell asleep on speaker phone with my best friend last night because I, we were both worried to sleep alone and we both had our dogs- thank goodness. But we’re in different states. And we were like, “Okay, just leave your phone on speaker. And like the, the ring tone’s always on if we need it.” So I, I hate how we were brought together. I said that before, but I’m immensely grateful for them. I feel like it’s never going to be over.

Keri: Right.

Jane Doe: I feel like there’s always going to be something. Um, and people like, there are some people that are trying to monetize again off of us. Um, whether it’s people that act like they’re supporting it or whatnot, that’s why I’m grateful for actual nonprofits, like you guys that actually fight and don’t just speak for everyone, lumping you saying, “Oh, all the GDP girls…”

Garrett Jonsson: Each, each survivor deserves the nuance, like a nuanced conversation about what they experienced. Right?

Jane Doe: I agree with that. Yeah. And, and yeah, it’s really difficult when people, um, compare us because I feel like I haven’t, I haven’t been heard. I don’t like being called a, a Girls Do Porn victim. It’s definitely a triggering word.

So it was like difficult dealing with their attorneys, uh, all different laws. but I, I am grateful that we can talk about it. Like yeah. Pornhub, having a download button, not verifying people. And some of the girls with the GirlsDoPorn trial were 17 when they were groomed.

Keri: well, they, they certainly got, um, Michael Pratt. He is, um, he is charged with child pornography charges.

Jane Doe: Yes.

Keri: Because he flew out, um, the court documents say that she was 16 when she was flown out to San Diego, at least one of the underage girls. And so he’s on the run for um, conspiracy to commit sex trafficking, sex trafficking as well as child pornography. So did, did the Pornhub lawsuit, did it feel like a win at all?

Jane Doe: No.

Keri: Cause I mean, you’ll had to end up settling and it was a 10 month process from the time that you filed in December 2020 to settling in, um, late summer, fall of 2021. Did that feel like a win?

Jane Doe: Um, no, it didn’t. I feel like the very word “settle” it’s like, “Oh, that, that sounds better than actually working for something. I, I really want.” Like we, we settle every day in our lives.

Keri: So what we can say is the original GirlsDoPorn lawsuit…

Jane Doe: Mhm.

Keri: … was, um, pretty much 11 years in the making.

Jane Doe: Yes.

Keri: And then this Pornhub lawsuit was 10 months long.

Jane Doe: Yes.

Keri: And that was not necessarily something that you’re happy about how quick it was?

Jane Doe: Personally. No, I, I don’t think that, um, I don’t, I don’t think that that was justice. I think Pornhub was incredibly complicit. I think they’re the main reason so many of those videos are still out there because of that download button. I think that they are a horrible company and it’s one of the most well known websites in the entire world. So I’m, um, extremely anti-porn and extremely anti-Pornhub. They discuss me. I think that they, uh, they’ve ruined a lot of lives. Mine included, and it was on there for years. And I emailed for years to get it taken down and no, no one listened. And then it just gets reposted with my name. And uh, Pornhub’s like, “Oh…”, they, they just don’t even get back to you.

Garrett Jonsson: There was just no response when you reached out to them?

Jane Doe: Uh, I think I had one response in five years.

Garrett Jonsson: Do you remember what the response was?

Jane Doe: Uh, “We removed to the video.”, and then it was just reposted. And so many girls, we, we had that in discovery. Um, we, we had to forward the emails and like, “Hey, how many times do you think you emailed them? How, how many requests did you get?” And I’m like, I could, could see how many views one of the videos had. And it was over 5 million and I’m like, “Great. And how many times have I emailed them to take this down?”

Garrett Jonsson: I think it just speaks to how irresponsible Pornhub is, and the lack of moderation that they have.

Jane Doe: Absolutely.

Garrett Jonsson: There’s no way for the amount of content that’s being uploaded to that site. There’s no way to have enough moderators to review this content.

Jane Doe: Absolutely. And, and the amount of revenge porn that they have on there, that’s ruined high school girls’ lives. How many people have committed suicide? They, they trafficked over… I, I was, I don’t even know what number, um, in the three hundreds. And they still went on for years after that. I think it was over….

Garrett Jonsson: What do you mean? Would you elaborate on that? I didn’t catch what you meant by the 300?

Jane Doe: Episode.

Garrett Jonsson: Oh, oh, of GirlsDoPorn? Oh yeah, gotcha.

Jane Doe: They did this to, I, I wanna say, I don’t know the exact number. I wanna say it was over 500 women.

Garrett Jonsson: Oh, okay. Gotcha.

Jane Doe: And…

Keri: It was at least 400.

Jane Doe: Yes. I know this for a fact because they went on for about two years after me and that’s on Pornhub, uh, top 10 recommended? So how many lives have they ruined and, and been complicit in ruining and charging people for quick satisfaction. I, I think that the truth needs to be told more about that and lives need to stop being ruined because people are greedy.

Keri: Would you say then that the MindGeek trial was less about the damages, the money, and more about holding the site accountable for what they were profiting off of?

Jane Doe: Yes. I do agree with that. I’m grateful that people like Visa and MasterCard stopped promoting and…

Garrett Jonsson: Processing payments…

Jane Doe: Processing and accepting them when they realized how complicit Pornhub is with human trafficking.

Garrett Jonsson: Big shout out to Nicholas Kristof.

Jane Doe: Yes. Huge shout out. I’m incredibly grateful.

Keri: What about with, um, Teddy, the cameraman?

Jane Doe: Teddy was the cameraman in my, uh, personal video. I don’t, he, he hasn’t gone through trial yet.

Keri: No, but he’s pled guilty.

Jane Doe: He has pled guilty and he was most definitely guilty. He, yeah, he picked, he was the one that picked me up in the Escalade, locked the doors. Um, yeah, he, he physically shoved me at one point. He, uh, at the, at the end they wanted to film a shower scene and told me to blow the camera a kiss. And I just about threw up right then and there, I was like, “Get out of here.” And as soon as he walked out with the camera, I locked the door. But I think it’s so important for people to know, like it wasn’t just what was on camera. So many women, myself included, were sexually assaulted, raped, groped, beaten up, drugged, all these different things off of the camera. uh, they would say things like, “Oh, I just wanna warm you up.” Or, um, “Trust me, you’ll really like it.” Or, or the next day, um, trying to like convince a girl that they’re dating. Like he, he, on top of everything that actually happened during the videos, he was so manipulative and aggressive and violent. He was very violent. And I’m really grateful that we saw justice for him. I know not everyone was happy with that outcome. Um, in the end though, like there was some justice done. Like, I’m glad he can’t hurt people right now. And I think that’s all we can really be grateful for at this moment. Hopefully we find Pratt at some point, hopefully he’s not hurting anyone right now. Like who knows where he is. Um, but like what’s driving that people are getting addicted to pornography and then they’re trying to go get it in person.

And the girls keep getting younger and younger and then they’re forced into it. It’s not just actors and who, who knows what everyone’s been through in their lives, but we have to stop the demand. The whole, the whole draw with GirlsDoPorn is like the, the nice, uh, girl, next door would never do this. Has, haven’t done this before. That’s why they make you do the interview at the beginning. And they coach you on what to say. They, I don’t even know how many times they refilmed mine. They’re like “Bite your lip a little…” or whatever. And it just kept going until you give them what they want. And so I don’t think a single interview at any in anyone’s video was, was honest. So many people were like, “Oh, I found out a lot about you.”

And I’m like…

Garrett Jonsson: Actually you didn’t.

Jane Doe: Yeah. And actually I’m not a porn star.

Garrett Jonsson: Do you have any advice for other survivors of sexual abuse or sex trafficking?

Jane Doe: Tell someone and get help. I regret not going, um, to the police when I was 15. I didn’t wanna admit that my virginity had been taken. I didn’t wanna admit that I was tainted. I didn’t even tell my family for years, uh, because I didn’t want anyone to think differently. So, um, sticking to your guns, sticking up for yourself, knowing your worth is huge. When, when this whole video came out, I thought I had no worth. I thought, “Oh, it, it doesn’t matter if I die. If I commit suicide.” Um, I used to think suicide was a really selfish thing. I grew up really religious and, and I was like, “How could anyone ever do that?” They’re hurting so many other people. And then being in that mindset, which I’ve, I’ve attempted, I don’t know, four or five times now. And while I was in that mindset, I thought “This is the most selfless, loving thing I can do for my family. They are so much better off without me. I love them so much that I’m willing to, to stop all this pain to never hurt them again. Never have them feel shame.”

Garrett Jonsson: Yeah.

Jane Doe: From me, I’m gonna lighten their mind.

Garrett Jonsson: That’s how you framed it?

Jane Doe: Yeah. And, and I think that I, I think of suicide a lot differently now.

Garrett Jonsson: Yeah. Can you elaborate?

Jane Doe: I, I had a cousin accidentally OD on, um, Xanax. He, we didn’t realize if it was suicide or not. Um, but knowing that I almost put my family through that and he he’s a cousin. I, I didn’t grow up with him. I didn’t, I didn’t know him super, super well, but I was destroyed by it.

Garrett Jonsson: Yeah.

Jane Doe: dAnd I was like, how, “Why didn’t I know he was hurting?”

Garrett Jonsson: Yeah.

Jane Doe: Why didn’t I reach out? Why didn’t I try to help? Um, I don’t think of it as a selfish thing anymore. I think of it as such a lonely, just devastating thing.

Garrett Jonsson: I kind of look at it as an unhealthy coping mechanism.

Jane Doe: Yeah. Yeah.

Garrett Jonsson: Like I have empathy for those who are victims of suicide. Because…

Jane Doe: Yeah. That’s, yeah. I, I think it gives you a, a much different mindset, but, um, I think we just have to reach out and ask for help and that there are so many resources out there that I didn’t know about.

Garrett Jonsson: Yeah.

Jane Doe: And I was, um, I was hurting too much to think that I mattered enough to get help.

Garrett Jonsson: Yeah.

Jane Doe: And I was worried about being judged, but there’s like the suicide hotline, there are people, if you don’t feel safe going to a family member or a friend, um, there are so many, you can go to the hospital. Like, I’ve, I’ve literally admitted myself before saying, “Hey, I haven’t done anything yet, but I’m going to hurt myself.” And they just sedated me. And I, I, I finally slept for the first time in five days, I, I couldn’t sleep cuz I was having nightmares and it was making me delirious and just out of my mind with grief and like healthy sleep hygiene is one of the most important things, try therapy, get a dog. Like don’t think that you’re broken. Don’t think that your life doesn’t matter. No one can take that away from you.

Garrett Jonsson: Each one of us is a complex individual.

Jane Doe: Yeah. Yeah. We, we have so many different facets, different emotions, different personalities. And that’s what makes us beautiful. And I think just consciously going about your day thinking, “Okay, someone else might be hurting. I’m not the only one. There’s no shame in asking for help.”, and taking the steps to actually heal. And knowing that you’re not alone, it’s sick that sexual assault is so prevalent. It’s sick. That there’s such a demand for pornography. Um, so doing the most that we can to stop feeding that fire.

Garrett Jonsson: Yeah.

Jane Doe: Spreading awareness. I think, uh, if anything, if you let it, your trauma and trial can give you wings and it can give you opportunities to help. There are silver linings and everything, even if it’s really, really hard to see them, my mom’s helped me see it. My job has helped me see it. Um, I’ve had to like remember to try new things, like look for different talents. I have actually get to know myself, try to discover the things that I actually really love.

Garrett Jonsson: That’s cool.

Jane Doe: Yeah. I, I just, uh, isolated for so long that I was like, “I feel so alone.” I’m gonna go learn how to fly fish.

Garrett Jonsson: Mm.

Jane Doe: And I learned how much I loved it.

Garrett Jonsson: So cool.

Jane Doe: I, I just think everyone should get a dog though.

Garrett Jonsson: [laughter]

Jane Doe: This was not nearly as scary as I thought it would be.

Garrett Jonsson: Really?

Jane Doe: Yeah.

Garrett Jonsson: Cool.

Jane Doe: Thank you so much.

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