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Garrett Jonsson: My name is Garrett Jonsson, and you’re listening to Consider Before Consuming a podcast by Fight the New Drug. And in case you’re Fight the New Drug is a non-religious and non legislative organization that exists to provide individuals the opportunity to make an informed decision regarding pornography by raising awareness on its harmful effects, using only science facts and personal accounts.

As we sit down with experts, influencers, activists, and people with personal accounts, we cover a wide variety of topics that may be triggering to some. You can refer to the episode notes for a specific trigger warning. Today’s episode is with James Lawrence also known as The Iron Cowboy. He broke multiple Guinness world records early in his triathlon career, but he didn’t stop there. He went on to complete arguably the most impressive endurance feet ever performed when he finished 100 full distance triathlons, in 100 days. James is an anti-sex trafficking advocate and has used his platform to shine light on the dark corners of sex trafficking. But this is a unique episode because the focus isn’t specifically about sexual exploitation, the focus is on the limiting beliefs that each of us can hold. It’s likely you’ve been negatively impacted by your limiting beliefs, whether you’re a person who has unwanted porn consumption, someone who is currently the porn industry, but wanting to transition out, or a parent who is unsure. If you can actually have difficult conversations with your kid, the truth is you can overcome your challenge with unwanted porn consumption. You can transition out of the porn industry. You can have healthy conversations about the harmful effects of pornography with your kid. The reason that I feel that this is an important episode is because James can inspire each of us to confront our limiting beliefs and redefine impossible. During this conversation, we talk about why James is dedicated to the fight against sexual exploitation, how to overcome limiting beliefs and why the first step is to believe in yourself. With that being said, let’s jump into the conversation.

Garrett Jonsson: How are you?

James Lawrence (The Iron Cowboy): Amazing. How are you?

Garrett Jonsson: Doing great, man. I saw you had the mustache. So I had to get mine ready, too.

James Lawrence (The Iron Cowboy): I appreciate that. [laughter]

Garrett Jonsson: I’m trying to match your energy.

James Lawrence (The Iron Cowboy): Love it.

Garrett Jonsson: Well, I want to start off with a little story, James, because I think it will help you better under understand, like why we have this podcast. The name of the podcast, as you know, is Consider Before Consuming and this story again, it might help you better understand on the purpose of it. When I was in junior high, my buddy and I were walking home from school and we saw this speed trap. Like these cops were at the bottom of this hill and they were, yeah, there were speed trapping people, pulling people over and there were multiple cars pulled over as we, we walked past them. And then we had this idea like, “Let’s go home and make a sign and go notify people of this speed trap.” So we went home, we got some cardboard, a big piece of cardboard, and we made this sign to notify people of the speed trap.

And we went to the top of the hill, just, you know, beyond the, the vision of the cops. And we held the sign up and people were like honking outta like celebration of like appreciation for us, notifying them that they’re about to get pulled over, you know, and then they’d slow down. And, you know, I think I, I kind of refer to that as like the most altruistic thing I’ve ever, ever done in my life. No, not really, but in reality it was kind of selfish as well. Cause my buddy and I were having a great time, but we were helping people be safer and we were helping them avoid this speed trap at the same time. And I hope this podcast does the same thing. When we, when we’re talking about the podcast Consider Before Consuming, I hope that it kind of acts as, uh, warning to the harmful effects of pornography. So people can make an educated decision regarding pornography where, and then it gets to you like, why are you here today on our podcast? And the reasons why we want to do it on the podcast is because one, you are the Iron Cowboy James and, and also you’re dedicated to fighting sex trafficking. So we appreciate you being here today, James.

James Lawrence (The Iron Cowboy): Yeah. Thanks buddy. That’s a fun story. Um, I, uh, I, I tried to do that on a very smaller scale. One time, you know, you can, you can flash your lights, at people coming at you to let them know coming. Um, well I, um, a highway patrol man coming the other direction and he turned around and he flipped his lights on and pulled me over and I got a ticket, um, for illegal use of my headlights.

Garrett Jonsson: Oh shoot.

James Lawrence (The Iron Cowboy): So, so I was, I was penalized for my kindness, so I didn’t have the, the same satisfaction that you received for trying to, um, help others avoid the speed trap.

Garrett Jonsson: You notified the wrong team there.

James Lawrence (The Iron Cowboy): I did. Yes. [laughter]

Garrett Jonsson: Well, um, again, we’re excited to have you on the podcast today. And as I’m thinking about this podcast and like the purpose of this episode, specifically speaking, I think that it goes without saying, once people learn about you, if they haven’t already, you are a person who inspires, uh, you are a person who has redefined what it means to do something that is considered impossible. And I think that that can be a very, very helpful thing. Uh, for a lot of people. And most of our listeners are… they fall into different categories and we have a wide variety of listeners, but sometimes they’re gonna be parents who are other type of caregivers. They’re gonna be people who are currently porn industry, um, who want to transition away or who are considering the harmful effects of pornography. Um, sometimes some of our listeners are gonna be former performers, people who have left the industry or people who have been trafficked. Um, another one is, you know, people with unwanted porn consumption where they have this habit that, that has developed and they’re wanting to change, make a change, but they think it’s impossible. And all of these scenarios are very tough scenarios to be in. And again, going back to you, like you redefine impossible and it can be a very helpful, like that inspiration can be very, it can be a spark for other people, right?

James Lawrence (The Iron Cowboy): I think what’s, what’s cool is, um, you know, you, you hear growing up that everybody has unique gifts and talents and that it’s, um, we should share those gifts and talents and growing up, I was like, “Man, that person is an unbelievable singer. I don’t have that talent.” And I be, “Oh man, that pretty, super funny. I don’t have that talent.” Or “Man, that person’s super athletic. I can’t do that.” That person’s got talent. And for the longest time I was like, “Man, this sucks. I don’t know what my talent is.” And um, and then during the actual conquer 100 campaign, I figured it out. Um, and, and, and on the surface it would seem like this is a, a totally useless talent. Um, but I have, um, a gift of suffering, um, a unique gift to be able to endure pain, endure boredom, endure, whatever it is.

And again, on the surface, it’s like, “Well, that’s that, that’s the crappiest gift to anybody’s ever got, I’m glad, I’m glad you have that. And I don’t.” But the reality is, is, um, over the course of our journey, we, we get emails, messages, hundreds of them, um, of people telling us their story. Um, the struggles that they’re in, the, the adversity that they’re facing and, and they’re suffering. And a lot of times it’s not intentional suffering like victims of sex traffic. They’re not, they’re not intentionally suffering. It’s just a burden that they, they are currently bearing. And, and I’ve realized that our team’s ability to intentionally suffer, gives people hope on their journey where they’re not intentionally suffering.

Garrett Jonsson: Oh, I like that.

James Lawrence (The Iron Cowboy): And so, although on the surface, it looks like “Man, that’s a really shitty gift.” Um, but, but, but it, it, it’s a, your perspective changes when you receive messages of people that are dealing with, um, unwanted adversity.

Garrett Jonsson: Yeah.

James Lawrence (The Iron Cowboy): Um, it gives them hope on their journey, knowing, okay. If, if they can continue to press forward facing everything that they’re facing, it gives me courage to, to show up and fight one more day.

Garrett Jonsson: Yeah.

James Lawrence (The Iron Cowboy): And it was, and, and we may or may not get into it, but it is the reason we did 1 0 1. Uh, we didn’t have to, uh, but we wanted to, to really showcase at a high level that look, I get it. You’re broken, you’re defeated. You don’t know if you can get up and do one more.

Garrett Jonsson: Yeah.

James Lawrence (The Iron Cowboy): Um, I, I, I felt that was so important on our journey to get up and do one more when we, when we didn’t have to and continue to suffer.

Garrett Jonsson: Wow.

James Lawrence (The Iron Cowboy): Um, with, with the, with the hope, um, that it gives people hope on their journey. Um, I, I love that the gift I get to give people is hope, and I get to remove, um, excuses and, and possible entitlement from, um, and that’s a, that’s a, that’s a beautiful gift exchange. Um, that gets to happen because of our team’s willingness to intentionally suffer.

Garrett Jonsson: Right. Yeah. Yeah. Again, we live in this weird time, this very unique time of history where the comfort, like the ease of access to comfort is wild.

James Lawrence (The Iron Cowboy): Unprecedented, is what it is.

Garrett Jonsson: Yeah. I love that you were talking about intentionally suffering. And then the other thing that I caught, you said that you discovered this ability to suffer in, and you said you, you found that ability during the conquer 100 challenge. And I’m just like, I’m wondering, why did it take you so long? Cause you already did before the conquer 100, you had already done 50 In 50 In 50. And did you not discover that talent during 50 In 50 In 50 as well?

James Lawrence (The Iron Cowboy): No. So I realized it was a talent and an ability, but not a gift that benefited others.

Garrett Jonsson: Okay.

James Lawrence (The Iron Cowboy): And so I I’ve, I’ve had the understanding that I had this ability, but didn’t look at it as a gift until the hundred where really became a towards the impact that it was having. Um, you know, because a lot of our, a lot of our journey has been, most of our journey has been highly, um, non not publicized. It hasn’t been in the public eye. We have a, you know, we have our pocket of falling. We’re not mainstream media, we’re not pop culture, we’re not any of those things. And so when you’re offering in silence and, and in solidarity to begin with you, don’t realize it’s a gift until you get an audience and that audience is being impacted by your ability. And then you realize, oh, this is, this is something I, this is something I have that I can give others.

Garrett Jonsson: Yeah. One of my favorite quotes is that “a spark starts a flame.” And like you’re saying like that inspiration, you, you and your team are the spark for a lot of people. So again, we’re excited to have you and speaking to sex trafficking again, I know that you’re a person, again, dedicated to, uh, fighting sex trafficking. And I’m wondering if you can talk to that a little bit, like there’s a lot of misconceptions out there about sex trafficking, and I’m wondering if you can speak to some of the ones that you held before doing further investigation and better understanding this issue.

James Lawrence (The Iron Cowboy): You know, we, we’ve always tried to associate our challenges with, with charities and philanthropic and awareness. And, you know, we we’ve raised money for building dams in Africa. And then the 2015 campaign was, um, to try to bring awareness to the, the childhood obesity epidemic. Um, you know, people don’t realize that we’re the first generation ever where the parents are slated out of the kids because the kids are so sick and dying. Um, and that, that’s, that’s a, that’s a terrible, excuse me, realization at the time I had five young kids. And so that was kind of like my world as time moved on, you know, six years later, we go to tackled a hundred and they sat down with my wife and I was like, “Hey, who, who, who do we wanna raise money for?” And she was like, “Look, I really wanna tackle the, the sex trafficking issue.”

We’ve got four teenage girls. Um, and, you know, as we started to discover and go down the road, I’m like, this affects my teenage son as well. Um, and then, and then adulthood, and once you really start getting into it, it impacts all of us. And, and it’s, it was less that, you know, our kids were at risk of being taken in sex trafficked. Um, but it was that the US was the number one consumer of it. And, and that was a huge eye opener too. Like, you don’t have to be, um, a victim that way, but you’re, you’re contributing to the problem by being a, a mass consumer and with the us, you know, the US is like, “Ah, that that’s not a problem here. Like we, we’re not dealing with that. Like our, our people aren’t being taken and trafficked it’s the other countries and we don’t know how to solve that problem.”

Well, the reality is, is you’re probably the head of the problem because you’re the, you’re the culture and the society that is consuming it and almost normalizing it. And, and that’s where, that’s where kind of my eyes were open to, like, it’s not just foreign teenage girls that are, that are massively being impacted. It’s it’s everybody. Um, and, and, and the, the that’s like, if you eliminated consuming, there would no longer be a need for it.

Garrett Jonsson: Right.

James Lawrence (The Iron Cowboy): And so I think, I think that’s a whole other conversation too. Um, and, and it’s from my understanding and all this studies and like, it’s an, it’s an addiction, it’s a problem. It’s like a, a chemical reaction in the brain. And so, so it’s not just like, “Hey, you’re X, Y, Z, because you consume X, Y, Z. And you’re the problem.” My realization was like, look, this is a disease. And, and we have a consumption problem as a, as a society, and that’s contributing to the desire or the need to create the, the product for it. And so that was, that was kind of a huge eye opening for me that, um, that the, that the US, uh, specifically was the number one consumer of this product.

Garrett Jonsson: Right. Yeah. And it’s tough to get accurate numbers on like consumption. I’m, I’m referring to pornography consumption. Now it’s tough to get numbers like true numbers in regards to how much consumption there is in the United States compared to other countries. But there is some evidence showing that we are much higher level of consumption as a country. Um, and so again, yeah, and, and pornography is one of the fuels of sex trafficking. And so, um, I admire your wife wanting to fight sex trafficking, and yourself as well for the efforts you put forth to bring awareness to this issue. Um, well, let’s jump into kind of who you are and your brand conquer 100 and Ironman. Um, sorry, not iron man, Iron Cowboy, James, I guess it all started off because of kind of the iron man thing though, right? Because originally we’re doing Ironmans.

James Lawrence (The Iron Cowboy): Yeah, for sure. Actually the first two world records that I broke were specific to kinda the brand Ironman and, and I we’re actually the reason why Guinness had to come out and separate brand racing and the distance.

Garrett Jonsson: Right.

James Lawrence (The Iron Cowboy): Cause a lot of people don’t know like Ironman is a brand, they are a company owned by the world trio corporation. They’re like Bandaid for bandages. They’re like, uh, you know, Xerox for print machines. They have just become the household name. Like people say, “Hey, pass the Hines.” Well, it may be a different brand of ketchup, but that just becomes, you know, you know, what, what we consume, um, or what is so normal. And so they’ve just done such a great job of marking it, that Guinness eventually had to say, “Okay, look, it’s no longer an Ironman world record. It’s a full distance triathlon.” Cause that’s what it is.

Garrett Jonsson: Yeah. That would be like a brand like owning the distance of 26.2. You know?

James Lawrence (The Iron Cowboy): Right. It’s a marathon.

Garrett Jonsson: Yeah.

James Lawrence (The Iron Cowboy): Right.

Garrett Jonsson: Okay.

James Lawrence (The Iron Cowboy): But they’ve just done such a great job of marketing and creating these terms. So they own the word Ironman, they own the word 140.6- that’s the distance they 70.3, they own Half Ironman. Like they own all of these words and they’re very, very strict with, with public use.

Garrett Jonsson: Yeah.

James Lawrence (The Iron Cowboy): And, and so it’s, it’s hard because that’s now become public perception. But the reality is, is there’s four standard distances of triathlon sprint, Olympic, half, and full. And each of them kind of double in distance as you go. And the full is the iron man distance and the Olympic it’s called the Olympics cuz that’s what they do in the Olympics. But basically it doubles each time. So sprint, Olympic, half, and full and, and my journey, it did start with tons of sprints, like explosive fundraising and I loved it.

Garrett Jonsson: Yeah.

James Lawrence (The Iron Cowboy): Um, and then, you know, as you gain experience and knowledge, you go, “Oh, well I want to try an Olympic.”, “Hey, I want to try a half.”, “What’s this whole full Ironman thing?” And slowly got into that. And um, again, trying to raise money for charity and have an impact just said, “Okay, Ironman racing was so fun. I love that challenge. What’s the, is there a world record for the most half Ironmans done in new year?” Cause that’s where I thought I should start. And ultimately did 22 half Ironmans in 30 weeks. And that was the beginning of our journey. And we broke that world record. And then we were like, “What’s the full Ironman world record.”

Garrett Jonsson: Wow.

James Lawrence (The Iron Cowboy): And it was, it was, you know, 20 in, in a year. And I was like, “I could do 30.

I know I can.” And so we just weigh in over weigh in over head and we just started on the journey and right near the tail end of that, that full Ironman world record, it was 30 Ironmans, official events sanctioned all around the world for 11 countries. And I just at right near the end of it raced 27. And I only had three to go. We were really confident we were gonna make it. And we did, but right at the end of that, you know, you, it’s interesting. Cause when you’re in the middle of a fight and you’re in the middle of a battle, it’s the hardest fight you’ve ever fought.

Garrett Jonsson: Right.

James Lawrence (The Iron Cowboy): And, but when you, when you win that fight more becomes possible. And the analogy I like to lose use is like, we’re all climbing mountains and we’re all climbing the hardest mountain we’ve ever climbed.

But when you summit that mountain, because you’ve chosen to face adversity to overcome, to make sacrifices, all of a sudden you’re standing on top of that mountain and you can see a bigger mountain that you couldn’t see before because you were on the other side of the current mountain. You were climbing now when you’re on the top of the mountain, another mountain is there. And now that mountain becomes possible because you’ve got knowledge and experience from the one you just climbed. So right at the tail end of the 30, I was like, “Man, that wasn’t, that, that was hard when I was in the middle of it. But now that I’ve accomplished it, it wasn’t that hard only because I’m different because I’ve gained knowledge and experience.” and I wanted to find out, okay, now what are, what are I limits?

How many cons, how many of these could I do if I did 30 in a year? How many consecutive could I do? And at the time the record was five. It was like this big race, epic five, five Ironmans, five days, five Hawaiian islands. And I was like, “Whoa, there’s no way that’s insane.” But then I started to think about it and I was like, “Well, I just gotta slow down a little bit and pace myself and put the right team in place.” And then I was like, “But I, I don’t, I’m pretty sure six would be easy. 10 doesn’t scare me.” And then I was following Dean Karnazes and Dean is an ultra runner.

Garrett Jonsson: I know Dean actually. Not, I don’t know him personally, but I read his book.

James Lawrence (The Iron Cowboy): Yeah. And he did 50 marathons, 50 days, in 50 states. And the, the endurance world was like, “What? That’s the most crazy epic thing ever.” And I was like, “Man, if the world reacted that way to marathons, what would it, what would they do if I did an Ironman in 50 days in 50 states. And so at the end of 2012, Guinness second Guinness world record, I was like, “That’s the project. That’s what I’m gonna put on the table.” And for two years, that just is all I thought about. And I was like, we’re doing this. And I trained as hard as I could. I, I, I spring volted my, my fitness from the, the 30 and that world record. And I was like, this is it. I… we’re doing 50 in a row. And we just started to figure it out logistics. And I had little kids and I was like, “Dude, it’s gonna be awesome. Summer vacation. Throw ’em in a motor home, Sunny Joe, it’s gonna be amazing.” That’s my wife. And “We’re gonna do this. We’re gonna set sports history.” And uh, just, you know, everything was chaos and controversy. And I mean, we were going down a road that was just so uncharted. Nobody had done it before. Nobody had close to do it, what we were trying to do.

Garrett Jonsson: Right.

James Lawrence (The Iron Cowboy): Um, and we’re not perfect. We made mistakes, but we continued to press forward. And, uh, documentary currently on Amazon prime, we’ve got the book Redefine Impossible. And um, and so yeah, that’s what brought us to, to the, the 50 consecutive, um, world record attempt.

Garrett Jonsson: I haven’t read your book yet, but I have watched the documentary and it was a very cool documentary. Very, very cool.

James Lawrence (The Iron Cowboy): Yeah. We’re, you know, we did the hundred and we’re in the process of editing that documentary right now. And, and I should really start writing the second book that’s supposed to come out the end of this year. Uh, I’ve just been, we’ve been so busy with, with everything else.

Garrett Jonsson: Gotta get on that.

James Lawrence (The Iron Cowboy): Yeah.

Garrett Jonsson: Going back to Dean Karnazes, man. He is the person that inspired me to do a hundred mile race.

James Lawrence (The Iron Cowboy): Yeah. Dude’s inspired a lot of people.

Garrett Jonsson: He was running. And, and like, from what I remember from his book, it’s been a while, but he was like ordering little season, not little Caesar, like Round Table Pizza and eating it as he ran and stuff.

James Lawrence (The Iron Cowboy): Yeah, yeah. Him, him and Rich Roll, I mean, Rich Roll is a good buddy of mine podcaster and, um, same thing was, was a depressed alcoholic, uh, attorney, I believe. Um, and just walked out his front door and started her to run.

Garrett Jonsson: Yeah.

James Lawrence (The Iron Cowboy): And before, you know, it, he he’d run, run a marathon one direction and said, “Sweetheart, I need you to come pick me up.”

Garrett Jonsson: Yeah.

James Lawrence (The Iron Cowboy): And he did the same thing. It was so hungry, just ordered a pizza and gave him the, on the side of the road and consume the whole thing. And yeah.

Garrett Jonsson: Yeah.

James Lawrence (The Iron Cowboy): It’s, it’s pretty similar stories, remarkable, remarkable people pioneers in, in what, in, in, you know, what we do today and, um, just good friends of mine, uh, Rich Roll especially. Um,…

Garrett Jonsson: That’s cool.

James Lawrence (The Iron Cowboy): Yeah.

Garrett Jonsson: Well, when I think about you, James, I, the word that comes to mind is grit. And, uh, I’m just wondering what your, what your, uh, what your opinion is regarding grit, because I’m wondering if you think you were born with grit or do you think that the grit developed through your experiences?

James Lawrence (The Iron Cowboy): Yeah, so, so grit to me is just it’s mental toughness. It’s it’s how, how can you manage the conversations in your head? How can you show up in the face of adversity and continue to push through, um, how do you, uh, make no excuses and own the journey that you’ve been on to me, all of that is a grit. Um, it, it’s a, it’s a tough word to define because everybody’s level of grit is different. Like you just said. Um, I do think you’re born of it, um, a certain level, um, and then like anything, it has to be cultivated. Um, Shaquille O’Neal, uh, Michael Phelps, uh, Simone Biles. They were all born with very, very specific talents and gifts. If they chose to do nothing with them, they wouldn’t be the champions they are today. Same thing with grit, we’re all born with a certain starting point.

And then it’s on us to develop, and cultivate those gifts. And when you pay no attention to it and don’t apply it and don’t become uncomfortable, intentionally don’t show up. And all of these cliche things, um, you, your, your, your grit meter will stay super low and it’s only, you can’t, you can’t listen to you and I having a conversation. You can’t listen into, um, Goggins’ nonsense or rambling. You can’t listen to a podcast. You, you, you have to show up on your journey, you have to move, you have to have an experience. And at a certain point in your journey, you have to be backed into a corner where you, you are, were broken, and then you have to display the right amount of courage and grit and walk out of that corner. That’s when you’re starting to gain and build your grit. Um, and only that it’s only through experience, um, that you can grow.

Garrett Jonsson: You have to take the step.

James Lawrence (The Iron Cowboy): Absolutely. You, you have to, you have to go on a journey and you have to continually, um, show up on that journey, partake in that journey. Um,…

Garrett Jonsson: Right.

James Lawrence (The Iron Cowboy): And if you’re unwilling to you will stay at whatever level of grit, grit, or toughness that you’re currently at today.

Garrett Jonsson: Yeah.

James Lawrence (The Iron Cowboy): In fact, in fact, it’ll, it’ll be climb. It’ll get worse and worse as you will start to be defined as this person who isn’t showing up. And that becomes who you are.

Garrett Jonsson: Right. It’s almost like we’re not on this level ground where if we just don’t act, we stay there, we’re on a little bit of a, an incline. And if we don’t act, we just start rolling back. And I guess it goes back to like growth versus decay. Right?

James Lawrence (The Iron Cowboy): Yeah. We’re, we’re never just standing still. Yeah. We’re either progressing or we’re slipping backwards unintentionally. And so if you find yourself standing still in life without a desire to, to grow, adapt, progress, you’re not standing still, you are slipping backwards.

Garrett Jonsson: Yeah. Well, I’m curious how, I don’t know. I’m looking, I’m thinking back on your experience, cuz you said that you got some inspiration from like the five Ironman deal. And then you looked at Dean Karnazes what he was doing with the 50 In 50 In 50 with the marathon thing. And then you come up with this 50 In 50 In 50, but it’s with again, a triathlon with full distance triathlon distance. I’m just wondering, like, as you conceived this idea to do 50, 50 In 50, did you doubt yourself? Did you question if you could finish that?

James Lawrence (The Iron Cowboy): No, never. Um, I didn’t my team didn’t and, and I think it’s because, um, we, we went into it with 300% conviction, uh, and, and also a lot of naivety having no idea how complex or how difficult or how chaotic it would be. And, and I think that is always a blessing in disguise. Cuz how many times have you done something difficult and said, “Man, had I known how difficult that would be? I probably wouldn’t have done it.”

Garrett Jonsson: For sure. For sure.

James Lawrence (The Iron Cowboy): Even though I’m great. Even though I’m grateful that I did do it. Um, so I think there was always that element, but as soon as you even start to think that “not possible” or looking for ex reasons or excuses to, to back out, you’re in a lot of trouble and anytime something happened, we were always like, “Okay.”, it was never a, a panic mode.

It was, um, puzzle solving mode and we became master problem solvers at figuring out what we were doing and how do we navigate this current situation? It was totally uncharted territory. Nobody had ever done what we were doing, um, to the scale that we were doing it. And, and I mean, it was me and my five kids, and my wife and two wingman. I mean, that’s all we could, that’s all we could afford. That’s all we could convince to believe in us. Uh, but tho that team was so solid, um, was so much belief in conviction, um, that there was never a moment of trying to talk somebody off the ledge to continue and not quit. It was like, “Okay. So, and so needs a minute. We’re gonna give them five minutes to feel they’re gonna process it. And then we’re gonna rally back together and keep going.” Um, but it was never a, “Oh man, you don’t, you don’t don’t quit.” You know, it was never that ever, ever, ever.

Garrett Jonsson: Yeah. I guess that shows the importance of, you know, having the right team and kind of relating it to the listener. It’s like who in your life believes in you and who in your life is holding you back? You know?

James Lawrence (The Iron Cowboy): Well, and, and, and reality is, is nobody is gonna believe in you until you believe in yourself first.

Garrett Jonsson: Yeah.

James Lawrence (The Iron Cowboy): Um, and you know, you know, sometimes you hear the story of like, “You know, I’m so grateful that so, and so believed in me, it sparked my belief.”, and, and that, that that’s gonna happen and you’re gonna have that exchange. But at the end of the day, that could kickstart or, or flint your, your beginning. But it doesn’t matter who the believes in you, if you don’t believe in yourself, so take that spark and then you have to light your own flame.

Garrett Jonsson: Right.

James Lawrence (The Iron Cowboy): And you have to believe, and you have to create that belief system and that tribe around you as a leader and until others really buy into what you’re doing and believing in what you’re doing, it has to start with you. You have to have that really deep rooted belief in conviction.

And I look back on a lot of the video interviews and stuff we did leading up to the 50 and, and it wasn’t, it wasn’t intentional. But if you listen to a lot of the words I was saying, I would say, no, it, they, I would always get asked, “What do you, what do you think your chances are?” And my answer was always “300%” and it was like, so, so much confidence. Like I, I was, I was offended. They were asking me what my chances were, because I didn’t understand the question because I was so bought in to the fact that “We’re doing this. It’s, it’s just how it’s gonna look and feel. But we’re, we’re, there’s no question. That’s on the table. We’ll see you in Utah 50 days.”

Garrett Jonsson: That’s cool. That’s really cool. Thanks for elaborating on that. Yeah. You are the one that has to take the first step. That’s, that’s an amazing concept. An empowering concept. So then five years later, six years later, I don’t know the exact duration between your two main events. Six years later, you decided to double the quant of the full distance triathlons you had done from 50 to… more than double to 101. And, um, you know, I think this is the…

James Lawrence (The Iron Cowboy): The goal, the goal initially was one hundred.

Garrett Jonsson: Okay. And then what happened?

James Lawrence (The Iron Cowboy): It was, it was, it was never 101. So, so really, you know, we’ve, we’ve never run, we’ve never hid from the, that we made on the 50, uh, they’re in the documentary, they’re in the book. I talk about our own podcast. You know, we were pushed inside because of a hurricane. I crashed on my bike and spent a few, a few miles on elliptical machine and yeah. You know, the, the people on the outside looking and exploded about that and we made a decision, did not give them any power to continue on. And, um, there’s very valuable lesson in all of that. But for years I was just like, “Oh man, I wish, I wish I wish that mistake wasn’t part of my journey. I wish I didn’t, you know, I wish that wasn’t in blogs and conversations and I wish people didn’t have that perception of myself and the team.”

And for years I was like, “Man, I wish I could redo the 50.” but I never wanted to redo the 50 cuz it was hell. And then the pandemic hits and my calendar gets wiped clean. And literally like just, just kept getting the impression, now’s the time now’s the time like go and it was a hundred. And so we start, it was a, I mean really fast four month training block after taking six years off of being competitive and everything leading up to the 50 was all building upon each other. Well, you take, you take five year is six years off. All those building blocks are gone and you’re starting at square one. And I, I was really, you know, I had four months to get ready for this a hundred cuz I was like, “This is my opportunity. My calendar’s clear. Nobody’s doing anything. Sports aren’t happening. The public is craving content right now. And this is an opportunity for me to reset my history and, and, and, and make, make some adjustments to my past.” And um, so real quick, four month training block got the sponsors I needed on board and at the team, I got them all recommitted and back in and just really did as much, much work as I could in four months. And I was relying on my experience, my mental toughness, my grit, um, previous campaigns, um, and quickly got into trouble because I was gonna use the first half of the hundred to, to as training and building blocks. But I mean, you go from almost zero to a full four month training camp and then imagine 140 miles a day, what that mileage looks like. Um, it’s just, it’s a recipe for injury and disaster.

And I went into the first day of the a hundred with an ankle injury that I told nobody about. In fact, I’m having surgery on that ankle this month. And, um, and that was just the start of start of problems. I mean, five days in, I’ve got a picture of I’m sitting on my fireplace mantel t home. And um, but man, my legs are just completely swollen. I’m in incredible pain. And I was just like, “Oh man, here we go.”

Garrett Jonsson: Yeah.

James Lawrence (The Iron Cowboy): And I’m staring down, I’m staring down the barrel of, of 95, more Ironmans.

Garrett Jonsson: Shoot.

James Lawrence (The Iron Cowboy): That’s that’s a quarter of a year shoot, quarter of a year, 14,000 miles to ago. And you’re just thinking, “Oh my hell, I’m broken. Um, but I’ve made a commitment.” and then that that’s really when the journey starts, right. Like five days in and you, you realize like “we gotta figure this out.”

Garrett Jonsson: Yeah.

James Lawrence (The Iron Cowboy): And what a, what adjustments can we make? And this is, this is now it’s initially I was like, dude, I’m gonna, not only am I gonna do the a hundred, I’m gonna showcase my athleticism. I’m gonna throw down some times. And then everything changed because of what my body was giving me. I mean, I was, you know, 39 to 45, um, that those are years where, you know, if you’re not careful, you can slip into, into some, some stagnant problems and some weight gain and all, all those things that I was dealing with, then again, I was just trying to rely on experience, and knowledge to get me through. And, and really that is what got me through because my body was broken. And when you’re, when you’re broken five days in and have that realization that you committed to a quarter of a year, more of 140 miles a day, um, that’s, that’s got checked. Like that’s when you’re like a, “Okay, what, what does my word mean? What did I commit to? What am I willing to sacrifice?” Um, and I was like, “Dude, if I quit on day five, we’ve accomplished nothing.” And we ended up figuring it out and fighting and we raised over half a million dollars and that would’ve never happened if I had, on day five, I was like, “Yeah, hurts too much.” I, you know?

Garrett Jonsson: Yeah.

So one of my questions is regarding limiting beliefs because it kind of sounds like you’ve never had limiting beliefs regarding these couple projects. Like they was you, like you said, like your answer was “300%.”

James Lawrence (The Iron Cowboy): Yep.

Garrett Jonsson: Did you ever experience limiting beliefs with the 100 with the conquer 100?

James Lawrence (The Iron Cowboy): Um, Gol, it, it, it’s hard to say because when you’re in the middle of something and you’re all in, it just, it’s just problem solving mode. It’s like…

Garrett Jonsson: Okay.

James Lawrence (The Iron Cowboy): I, I, you know, moments become unbelievable and they’re hard to conceptualize, which is why you have to break things down smaller, become very present, not look a big picture stuff. Um, well how do I solve this moment right here right now?

Garrett Jonsson: Right.

James Lawrence (The Iron Cowboy): And I, and I think that’s what most people should learn, how to do is to, to reverse engineer everything. Um, and, and eliminate those, those, those belief systems that we have. I think one of the most important things that people can realize is our past doesn’t determine or dictate our future. And every single day, we can create a brand new belief system, um, through intentional meditation, through study, through, uh, mindset shifting, um, your does not dictate who you are in the future. It is who you were, or it is, is moments that you’ve had, but it isn’t who you are. And you, you, everybody has an opportunity every single day that you wake up.

It’s a beautiful thing. Every single day, you wake up and you have a blank white piece of paper, and every single day you can either or add to the direction, and the beauty that you want to go, or you can pause and start to slip back into you. But your past does not dictate who your future and every single day you get to choose who you want to be.

Garrett Jonsson: Yeah.

James Lawrence (The Iron Cowboy): And, and, and, and how you wanna roll it out. And so that that’s, you know, and I’m talking, our culture United States of America, opportunity is all around us. I’m not speaking to a global audience here.

Garrett Jonsson: Right.

James Lawrence (The Iron Cowboy): I, I can’t speak to cultures. I don’t live in experiences that I, that I, I’m not privy to. I’m specifically talking United States, Canada, that’s where I grew up. Opportunity is, is, and we do get to choose.

Garrett Jonsson: Yeah. Well, one of my, uh, favorite phrases is that moments of bliss are not free. And I’m wondering if out of all of the experiences you have with endurance events, if there’s a moment of bliss that out to you as your favorite?

James Lawrence (The Iron Cowboy): Uh, I mean obviously day one of the 50, day 50 of the 50 day, day one of the 100, day 100 of the 100.

Garrett Jonsson: [laughter] The first and last day?

James Lawrence (The Iron Cowboy): First and last days, you know, because there’s the beginning of every journey is loaded and, and filled with excitement and anticipation and possibility. And then the middle, the middle is chaos, confusion, adversity, triumph, um, ups, downs, valleys, and peaks, and all these things. And then, and then there’s that special moment when you achieve the goal.

Garrett Jonsson: Yeah.

James Lawrence (The Iron Cowboy): And you you’re there and there’s that true bliss. Um, I call it a moment of exhale. Now, the moment you proved to yourself that you did with, you said you were gonna do, it has nothing to do with proving anybody wrong. It has to do with proving yourself right. Um, and there’s a lot of power in that. And so, so for me, those moments of bliss are the beginning of any journey because it is, it’s so filled with excitement. I mean, how, how many, how many times have, have you realized in your life that like the, the drive or the flight to Disneyland was more exciting than the Disneyland experiences?

Garrett Jonsson: [laughter] Yeah.

James Lawrence (The Iron Cowboy): So, yeah. Or the, the thought a notion that Santa Claus is coming tonight was greater than the moment that you opened the gifts.

Garrett Jonsson: Yeah. The buildup.

James Lawrence (The Iron Cowboy): Yeah. The buildup.

Garrett Jonsson: Makes sense.

James Lawrence (The Iron Cowboy): It’s, it’s the, it’s the buildup. And so it’s the, the, the anticipation of how great something can be. Those are, those are fun moments of bliss. Um, it’s like that every, you know, it’s like that every single race I do, I’m like, “I love the training. I love getting excited. I love getting to their start line.” And then in the middle of the year, like I’ve retired, every Ironman I’ve ever done in my life 200 times. And I’m like “This is stupid.”

Garrett Jonsson: [laughter] I’m never doing this again.

James Lawrence (The Iron Cowboy): Like, what are we doing? And then you across the finish line, you’re like, “When can I do that again?” Right? And it’s that, it’s that it’s the buildup and anticipation, and then it’s accomplishing the goal. And then whatever’s in the middle of that is whatever it’s. Um, but I think those are the moments of bliss and what we experience in between. It allows us to really appreciate both those moments of anticipation and triumph.

Garrett Jonsson: Yeah. I like that. We have three kids and my wife after the first delivery, you know, she’s like “Never again.” And then she’s like “Well, maybe one more.” You know? similar thing there. Well, you’ve talked to this a little bit already, James. I’m wondering if you can elaborate a little bit more, cause you talked about that one step, right? The, you have the day one, and then the, the day that you finally prove yourself right. And all this time in between. So I’m wondering if you can talk to, um, doing the small things right. Because that’s something that you, you know, I followed you for a long time now and, um, on social media and I feel, I feel like that’s one of the things you talk to often is doing the small things right.

James Lawrence (The Iron Cowboy): Yeah. Secret to success. I get this ass all the time. One, how do we, how do I become more mentally tough show up, have an experience, two what’s a secret to success? And the answer to that is doing a lot of little things consistently over a long period of time. Um, it, it’s not, it’s not how fast and how spectacular you can do something. It’s, it’s how consistent can you be at it to make the impact? And it’s, it’s the whole theory of 1%. If I can get 1% better every single day, man, how powerful am I gonna be a year, two, three years before? Um, I just had a, a friend of mine, um, was extremely successful. Uh, and I was like, “Man, I wanna, I wanna be that dude.”Um, and then made some poor choices in his life, ended up losing everything. And, uh, almost as a 50 year old, um, coming out of rock bottom said, “You know what? I’m, I’m gonna become a doctor, always wanted to be a doctor.” And so he, he went back and is now in his clinical portion of becoming a doctor.

Garrett Jonsson: Wow.

James Lawrence (The Iron Cowboy): And again, it’s his past, doesn’t dictate his future. And at any moment in time, it’s never too late to start and it’s never, it’s never too late to become a better version of, of who you are. And a lot of people, I think, you know, they, because it doesn’t happen overnight. Um, both, both the slippery slope to, to failure and disaster doesn’t happen overnight that that’s doing a lot of little things wrong over, over a long period of time. You wake up and you’re like, “how did I get here?” Right? And the same, same flip side to that is like doing a little, little lot of little things. The next thing you know, you wake up and you’re like, “Oh shit, I’m a doctor. That’s amazing.” Right? And so doing a lot of little things consistently people say, “Hey, what’s the one thing you do for recovery?”

And I’m like, “I do 40 things for recovery. It’s not one thing. It’s all of the things on top of it.” Right?

Garrett Jonsson: Yeah.

James Lawrence (The Iron Cowboy): You know, how, “How did you become to be able to do what you do?” Well, it’s, it’s nutrition to recovery. It’s swimming, biking, running it’s strength, training. It’s um, you know, all of these different facets. And that’s, I think why I love triathlon so much is because there’s so many facets to it. I love golf. What makes a great golfer? Well, you gotta be a great driver. You gotta be great iron player. You gotta be a great wedge player. How you gotta be a fantastic putter. Like it’s not just one thing. It’s so many things that you have to pay attention to, but they can just be little. They don’t have to be these big monster things, do little tiny things, but do ’em consistently, and there’s a compounding effect, compounding effect to greatness.

Garrett Jonsson: Have you ever calculated how many inches you traveled?

James Lawrence (The Iron Cowboy): [laughter] No.

Garrett Jonsson: I just had that thought and I don’t know if this math is correct, but the number is really big. I just did this math as you were talking, because I was like, you’re talking about all these little steps, you know, and we say the one 140.6 and we’re like, “Oh, that’s the distance.” But then you’re breaking it down to every second during that one 140.6, you had to keep pressing forward. And it kind of shows. Yeah. Like those little moments consistent staying on, on, on track. And then you end up doing and conquering 100.

James Lawrence (The Iron Cowboy): Yeah, the, you can’t go from zero to hundred. There’s a, there’s a bazillion steps in between zero to a hundred.

Garrett Jonsson: Right.

James Lawrence (The Iron Cowboy): And without, without taking each one of those little steps, you, you can’t get to a hundred.

Garrett Jonsson: Yeah. I think that relates to, oh, sorry, go ahead.

James Lawrence (The Iron Cowboy): I was gonna say, and, and that that’s truly how you get any, anywhere is you just break it down to one manageable step, do that, break it down to the next manageable step, do that. Right. And, and people are so overwhelmed and anxiety and depression and all these things, and it’s all really real. Um, but those are emotions and, and people are like, “Oh man, I have anxiety.” No you’ve experienced anxiety. Anxiety can be overcome. You, you, you don’t be defined by anxiety. It’s not who you are. It’s an, it’s an emotion and a feeling that you’re feeling, you, you, aren’t an anxious person. You’ve experienced anxiety.

Garrett Jonsson: You experienced it. Yeah.

James Lawrence (The Iron Cowboy): And it don’t, don’t buy into the belief that that’s who you are. Now, you have to take it a step further and you have to figure out how to overcome that emotion. And there’s so many free tools and ex uh, uh, resources out there for us to participate in. And, and so I just, I, I, I, I have empathy because I I’ve gone through it. Um, but, but I encourage people to invest in themselves and invest in their journey and try to break down those feelings and emotions to overcome them. You aren’t that anxiety isn’t who you are. It’s what you’re experiencing. Now. You have to figure out how to overcome that anxiety and depression.

Garrett Jonsson: Right? Yeah.

James Lawrence (The Iron Cowboy): Easier, easier said than done. I get that.

Garrett Jonsson: Right. It’s a complex thing, but yeah, you’re right. The like that concept can vary. It can the application to other areas of life like this, doesn’t just have to do with end endurance events. Kind of like I, what I mentioned at first, our listeners, we have a wide range of listeners and each of them are, you know, in, in their situation and their situation may be very, very challenging, but taking that first step and continuing forward towards your goal is a very empowering thing. Um, you mentioned just barely, you said, you know, “I have empathy because I’ve experienced that” when you were talking about depression or anxiety or those, those challenging, the mental health side, and anyone that follows you on social media knows that you have grit. And I also love that you are open to, uh, the mental health side, like the struggles that you have had and maybe currently continue to, I’m sure continually do have, because we’re, we’re all human. I’m just wondering if you can talk about a time when you were struggling with something related to your mental health and what you did to navigate that?

James Lawrence (The Iron Cowboy): Yeah. Coming off the a hundred was, was a huge example of, but I mean, you talk about a slippery slope and death by a thousand cuts. Um, you wake up on day 102 and, and your whole world has been turned upside down because you were so, uh, mono-focused for decade.

Garrett Jonsson: Yeah.

James Lawrence (The Iron Cowboy): You know, and, and, and now that you accomplish that goal and the journey’s kind of over, it’s like what’s next. And is that the only thing that defined who I am, and, and then, you know, multiple concussions and bike crashes and the power of the mind protecting yourself from the trauma that you’ve been putting it through. Um, you wake up one day in a complete brain fog and you’re depressed and you’re sad and you have no idea why. And, um, it’s a journey. And I, I looked at the resources I had and, um, thankfully there was access to incredible, uh, cognitive therapy doctors here and, um, an entire process that I went through and was able to have my brain reset, um, which is crazy science and technology.

And, um, was so grateful. I had access to that and was able to, to, to get to the other side of that. Um, and, and I think there will be a day where it’s gonna be more accessible to everybody, but there’s free apps. Luminosity would be one where you can do brain games and, and re light up or light up pathways in your brain that reengages you. And I think the worst thing people can do is sit in darkness, solitude, um, that is your fastest track to increase anxiety and depression, um, sadness and loneliness. Um, one of the best things I did for myself during post hundred was to get outside and just start to move. I wasn’t trying to hit speed marks. I wasn’t trying to hit goals. I was just getting up on the mountain and moving.

Garrett Jonsson: Yeah.

James Lawrence (The Iron Cowboy): Um, I, I, I believe that motion creates emotion and a lot of us, uh, the worst thing we do is we isolate ourselves. The pandemic has done terrible things. I’ve said from the very beginning, this pandemic impact people financially and, and mentally more than it ever will physically. And that doesn’t demean the, the deaths and the, the tragedy that has happened. But I think it’ll be a greater impact.

Garrett Jonsson: Right. You’re just considering all of the negative impacts.

James Lawrence (The Iron Cowboy): For sure. And I, I think, uh, one that they weren’t considering is isolating everybody and, and, and increas, um, that depression and loneliness and solitude, I think human connection is incredibly important.

Garrett Jonsson: Right.

James Lawrence (The Iron Cowboy): Um, embracing someone, uh, interacting with people. Um, I’m so tired of zoom, man. Uh, yeah. Not, not, not engaging and getting out and doing tri camps, and exp you know, so the best thing I did after the a hundred, because I was experiencing that situational depression and anxiety, and, um, was to get outside.

Garrett Jonsson: Yeah.

James Lawrence (The Iron Cowboy): And just breathe fresh air yeah. And take in sunlight and reconnect to the earth. And, um, it’s just, it’s just something that we’re not doing. We’re not slowing down our daily hustle and bust routines. We’re not taking a minute to sit in silence and be in thought, um, and then surrounding ourself with really positive, great influencers in our lives. I think all those things are important for, for our mental health.

Garrett Jonsson: Right. Yeah. The brain is a powerful thing in the fact that it has that neuroplasticity, the brain ability to change and adapt. It means that today is a day that, like you said, every day is a blank sheet of paper. And, um, yeah, there, again, going back to like your tips as you transition from the conquer 100 into, you know, not doing that anymore, the tip of getting outside and moving, like movement can be medicine. And there’s a lot of research out there that shows that it can be causal and elevating, like improving mood and decreasing anxiety. So getting out and move, man, that’s a great, that’s a great tip.

James Lawrence (The Iron Cowboy): I, I would, I would challenge anybody that is experiencing current sadness and depression to get outside and move. And I, it would almost be impossible to not feel better.

Garrett Jonsson: Yeah.

James Lawrence (The Iron Cowboy): Yes. I mean, just, just the connection to the earth and the, the sun and the rays and the just being outside. Uh, worst thing we can do is sit inside in darkness.

Garrett Jonsson: Yeah. Well, you know, as we come to the end of this conversation, uh, we just wanna you with the opportunity to have the last word during this conversation, James, if there’s anything that you, you know, would want to share or discuss that we haven’t talked about or something else that you would like to, you know, emphasize, and that would be the time to do that. We’d love to hear those last thoughts that you have.

James Lawrence (The Iron Cowboy): Yeah. You know, I’m passionate about a lot of topics and I, I get to travel around the world and, and share messages of hope. Um, and, and I think that’s really what I want people to have is courage and hope to, to get out of their comfort zone and, and to experience life. Um, this, this life’s purpose is to, um, have experiences, experience joy, experience pain. I mean, the only way to do that is to go do all the time. “How do I find my passion?” Well, dude, stop trying to find your passion, just kind of experiences and your passion don’t find you. Yeah. Um, and I think that’s, that’s one of the biggest questions. One of the questions I hate the most is, “How do I find my passion,” dude, stop looking for your passion, go have experiences. And so maybe that’s my challenge.

My final thought is, is there’s no better place or time to start than right now. Nobody ever starts the expert. No, you can’t go from zero to hundred without taking the first step. And you have to, you have to start, you have to believe in yourself and you just go have an experience. And that’s when you’re gonna gain knowledge. That’s when you’re gonna meet people that that’s when you’re gonna blossom. And so that that’s really, my challenge is too to be okay with who you are today, and to just start showing up on your journey and be consistent with it. And you’ll be shocked, man. You you’ll be a different person at the end of 2022. If you decide to, to show up in your own journey and you will, you’ll regret it if you get to December 31st, 2022, and you’re still sitting there looking back going, “What if? Who could have I been if I had started?” And so just, just start today.

Garrett Jonsson: Awesome. Well, how can we support you? How can our listeners support you?

James Lawrence (The Iron Cowboy): Oh man, we do, we do so much fun stuff. Um, and, and, and really it’s, it’s supporting us by allowing us to help you on your journey, allowing us to help you get started. We, we just launched a fitness app across $1, um, and you can, you can gain access to it through our Instagram, Iron Cowboy James. Um, and just, if your journey’s starting there, it’s not about triathlon, it’s about fitness. It’s about moving, cuz that’s gonna make you feel better. And you know, we’ve got so much cool stuff coming up and you can find all out all about it on our webpage iron cowboy.com or through our social media at iron cowboy, James, but just a couple things, uh, February 28th, the end of this month, we’re, we’re launching a 60 day triathlon challenge, tons of fun prizes, races, um, coaching groups, we’ve got a mindset, um, camp it’s gonna be, um, four triathletes, but, um, more mindset focused.

Um, yeah, we’re just doing tons of really fun stuff, really cool stuff. Um, camps, adventures, retreats, all with the purpose to give back to help people experience what we’ve experienced, having the knowledge that you have to have and experience in order to, to change, adapt and grow.

Garrett Jonsson: Right.

James Lawrence (The Iron Cowboy): And so, yeah, just follow us on, uh, Iron Cowboy James, and, uh, a lot of information’s gonna be on ironcowboy.com. We also do a lot of speaking if you wanna high risk to do that. Um, but everything is geared for, for our ability to, um, to help others achieve their goals, um, and experience some of what we’ve had an opportunity to experience on our journey.

Garrett Jonsson: Awesome. Well, again, going back to my favorite quote, that quote that says, you know, uh, “a small spark, light’s a big flame.” and, uh, you and your team have been a, and now it’s up to the listeners to go and act on that spark and continue and press forward. So, James, we know you’re busy. We appreciate your time today.

James Lawrence (The Iron Cowboy): Awesome, man, thanks, Garrett.

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