Intro (00:00):
Today’s episode is with Melanie Thompson, outreach and advocacy coordinator for the Coalition Against Trafficking in Women. Melanie shares her experience of being trafficked at 12 and how it propelled her into activism. She discusses the intersections of race, gender, and socioeconomic status and sex trafficking, emphasizing its prevalence in the us. Melanie addresses misconceptions about platforms like OnlyFans and the harmful stereotypes propagated by pornography. She advocates for awareness, male allyship and systematic change to combat sexual exploitation. Additionally, Melanie provides resources for survivors interested in advocacy and encourages listeners to engage in conversations that drive meaningful change. With that, let’s jump into the conversation. We hope you enjoy this episode of Consider Before Consuming.

Fight The New Drug (01:04):
Melanie, thank you so much for being here with us today. I’m so excited to get to speak with you. We were able to connect recently at the Coalition to End Sexual Exploitation Global Summit and I was so delighted to get to hear you speak there, and I think our listeners will gain so much from getting to hear from you today. So for our listeners, we are speaking with Melanie Thompson. She is the Outreach and Advocacy Coordinator for the Coalition Against Trafficking in Women. And Melanie to, to get started, can you share a bit about your journey and what led you to become an activist at such a young age especially?

Melanie (01:42):
Absolutely. And thank you so much for inviting me to this conversation. So I actually was trafficked when I was 12 years old. I grew up in a domestic violence household with an abusive parent and there was alcoholism in the house, so I didn’t really have the most functional upbringing. But I was trafficked at 12 and I was kidnapped on the way home from a movie theater by my trafficker at the time. And then shortly after my time in the sex trade, I was arrested, went through the juvenile justice system, and then ended up in foster care for the remainder of my teenage childhood. And honestly, I was actually in a facility when a very prominent New York Times editor came to do an interview of the supervisor of the unit that I was in, and I remember the supervisor saying, why don’t you just interview one of the girls yourself? And he did. And I remember seeing this very small printed column of my interview in the New York Times at such a young age. I started a activism when I was 14, but I remember feeling so empowered by reading that. Not necessarily because of the interview remarks themselves, but just knowing that my voice could somehow reach a larger audience just ignited a fire in me, and I’ve been doing advocacy ever since.

Fight The New Drug (03:09):
That’s amazing. Would you say that that was kind of the impetus or a turning point, or what would you describe as a turning point in your healing and recovery that empowered you to speak out against sex trafficking and exploitation?

Melanie (03:23):
There was a lot of times when I was exploited that I was told that I was nothing, that my voice didn’t matter. If I screamed, nobody would hear me. Nobody’s coming for you. Nobody’s looking for you. And I think, like many people who have been exploited, I think I took those things to heart and I internalized them. And I think for me, seeing that column was a way to combat that internalization. But additionally, I’m the oldest of seven children and seeing my voice in the paper and then thinking about my younger siblings and recognizing that I didn’t want them to go through what I went through, I think was all the motivation that I needed.

Fight The New Drug (04:04):
It’s so remarkable that you were so young 14 at the time. Is that correct? And you’ve been doing this advocacy work for about 14 years at this point as well. What did advocacy against trafficking look like for you when you first got started?

Melanie (04:19):
It’s so funny, I always laugh when I think about that time. It was actually embarrassing . I used to do interviews with the media, with, with news stations about different things, mainly about my, either my story or how I felt about certain leg pieces of legislation relating to anti-trafficking initiatives. And I could recall one of my first interviews had a tri-fold po poster board around my head the first time that I ever did an interview and my voice was very prepubescent and you couldn’t see me, and I felt a little invisible. But I always love looking back at those video interviews because it kind of shows you how far I’ve come in my advocacy. So I would say nerve wracking at that time. A little bit cringey, if you look back at my child’s, my, my child, like voicing. But it, it was a, a great place to start.

Fight The New Drug (05:17):
And now you are working with the Coalition Against Trafficking in Women. Can you tell us a little bit about the work that you do now, what that looks like, how, how you kind of came into this role?

Melanie (05:28):
Absolutely. So I mean, it started with the column. It went to that first news interview with the poster board around me, and then from there, it kind of just took off. I started doing more interviews with different news stations. Then I started to do interviews without the poster board and started to put two of my feet solidly, solidly in this ground. And really just embraced it. And from there, I’ve just been continuing to do press conferences, do lobby days, go up to the Capitol Hill and, and testify for certain legislations at the Coalition Against Trafficking in Women. We are an international organization that focuses on legislative advocacy. So in my role here, I focus a lot on bridging partnerships with other organizations, other survivor led movements and stakeholders that care about anti-trafficking issues. And in my own capacity, I serve as a international and national consultant on these issues, not just specifically trafficking and sexual exploitation, but those as it pertains to racial injustice, juvenile detention, foster care LGBTQ plus issues, homelessness, poverty, and so on and so forth.

Fight The New Drug (06:36):
For someone who’s maybe a little less aware of how these issues intersect with trafficking, can you speak a little bit about that?

Melanie (06:45):
Absolutely. The majority of systemic or systems of oppression usually intersect with each other specifically as it pertains to sexual exploitation, sex trafficking. They are gender-based violence issues. Now, granted, sex trafficking and sexual exploitation does not discriminate against anybody. It can, it can affect or target any race, any gender, any background you know, any, any upbringing. However, there there are some numbers and statistics in this that we cannot ignore. Over 90 plus percent of individuals that are in the sex trade are women and girls or LGBTQ plus identifying folks. The majority of them are black and brown. When we talk about how does race and gender intersect with, with the sex trade, that’s just one major example. And then on the flip side, what we see is that the majority of the people who are doing the purchasing or purchasing sexual access to individuals further marginalized, are predominantly wealthier white men with disposable income according to our statistics.

(07:51):
So there is a lot of inequity, I guess I would say here when it comes to that. And there is a lot of imbalance of, of power as it pertains to race and gender. And then of course, we cannot ignore that sex trafficking or the sex trait targets those who are of lesser socioeconomic backgrounds. So we know that this is a, a classist issue, it’s a patriarchal issue, it’s a misogynist issue. And what we find is that those that have the disposable income tend to target those with less than, with less economic resources. And those who don’t have any alternatives to live basic sustainable lives. So we have the wealthier taking advantage of those who do not make a sustainable wage.

Fight The New Drug (08:39):
So as someone who has worked in advocacy and with survivors for the last 14 years and counting, you’ve really seen the way that technology has developed and how online platforms have grown. Can you speak to what we’re seeing between the connection of platforms like Reddit and OnlyFans and sexual exploitation? and, and maybe can you talk through some of the common misconceptions about platforms like OnlyFans?

Melanie (09:06):
Absolutely. You know, it’s interesting because a lot of people, we all have heard of OnlyFans, and I’ll touch on touch on that in a second. But a lot of people don’t recognize how platforms like Reddit, for example, can also be harmful and contributes to the, the negative impacts of the sex trade. Reddit specifically, we know it to be a website that people go to talk to each other, kind of like a chat room. But usually where you ask questions and get answers from in a community forum like space or similar to a Yelp. If you think about it in that way, however, these platforms, Yelp, Reddit, core Digest, these are places that we also find sex buyers and other traffickers going on to communicate with one another to either talk about how to evade police how to purchase sexual access to a marginalized person and or explicitly and negatively rating the people that they are continuing to purchase which I find to be disgustingly fascinating.

(10:16):
so we already, and I’m not sure if you’re familiar, but we already have platforms known as hobby boards or genre review boards or review boards where sex buyers will literally create these underground online platforms to talk to each other, to explicitly discuss their, their sexual encounters with the people they’ve purchased. And that already is held in and of itself. But to kind of move that kind of conversation and content to Reddit or platforms like it or Yelp, that’s, to me, very, very astonishing. OnlyFans now is a, is a very interesting platform because if we think about the sex trade sex trafficking 15 years ago, it was dominant. And excuse me, if we think about online exploitation and online sex trafficking say 15 years ago, we’re thinking of online platforms like Craigslist, we’re thinking backpage.com. We’re thinking websites like this where escorting and buying sexual services was kind of, that’s where the hub for it was.

(11:25):
since those websites have kind of died down when it comes to this section, since there’s been a lot more cracking down on the, those who perpetuate the system of prostitution, we’ve seen a rise in OnlyFans. And, and we kind of seen it start around the height of the pandemic when everybody was on lockdown and everybody was stuck in their houses and nobody was going to work in person at least. And it started off marketing itself as a platform for creatives to showcase their content, to showcase their cooking skills, their photography skills and charge people subscriptions for that. But very, very quickly it adapted into adult sexual content. And at least that’s what they told us. However, OnlyFans is a platform that also has a lot of trafficked kits and content of that. There’s a lot of CSA, there’s a lot of child sexual abuse material that is on OnlyFans, and we’re seeing people pay subscriptions for this content.

(12:31):
We’re seeing people pay for that. Unfortunately, what that is is an exact parallel or replica of the online sexual exploitation and trafficking platforms that shut down a few years ago. So OnlyFans is really no different. And in terms of misconceptions, I think that would be one of them that OnlyFans is not the same as Backpage, and that it’s not the same as Craigslist. People will say, oh, well OnlyFans if that’s not prostitution, that’s just where sex workers go to sell their content. Or, oh, OnlyFans isn’t actually buying sex. You just have to sell feed pictures. You don’t have to do anything sexually explicit. But the reality that we know that survivors know that people who do this work knows, we know that OnlyFans is not just selling foot pictures. If there are, there is a very small percentage of individuals who advertise adult erotic content that can sell feed pictures and are not solicited for something more.

(13:32):
And I want people to understand when it comes to OnlyFans as a platform that, you know, people will say, well, we’re not buying sex. We’re just buying sexy photos or something you know, sexually enticing. But the reality is that the same people, the same consumers, the same people who purchase sexual access to survivors like myself on the streets, in poor neighborhoods, in the back of cars and staircases, whatever have you, are the same individuals who are consuming and purchasing subscriptions on OnlyFans and consuming that content. So there is no difference in those who perpetuate this system regardless of the platform.

Fight The New Drug (14:08):
That was so well said. And I’m curious to know what you would say to young people. You know, we present often in middle schools, high schools and we’ve spoken with other individuals who also interact with youth in this work, and a lot of us are hearing how normalized OnlyFans is becoming among this generation of youth to the point where we’re hearing young people say, well, I don’t need to go to college or get a job after college. I can just create an OnlyFans. What would you say to those young people who think this is just an easy viable option for income for them?

Melanie (14:45):
I would say not so fast. You actually don’t know the full story. And unfortunately I blame our media in part for why this phenomenon is going around this false phenomenon. There’s, the media has put out a lot of false information around OnlyFans. Going back to misconceptions, one of them that I see a lot is that you can become a millionaire on OnlyFans, quit your job. You can make a million bucks a year just selling your feed or your feed pictures. And the reality is that one, it’s less than 1% of individuals who have OnlyFans platforms that actually touch a million dollars. And for those who actually have, most of them are either already in the pornography industry or already celebrities are all or already have a large following. So it’s actually not as lucrative as people think. Per an average only fan subscription is usually, usually ranges between 7 and $11.

(15:48):
So it’s actually not that lucrative. Additionally we also saw the same kind of false phenomenon with sugar dating. And depending on what age you are, you would know what I’m talking about. A lot of people, especially in universities, will say, oh, you know what? School is so hard, I’m just gonna quit and get a sugar daddy. And the, the idea of a sugar daddy is this idea that they will pay you just for your companionship. You don’t have to do anything sexually explicit. Maybe they take you on fancy vacations or fancy dates and buy you fancy name brand things and they don’t want anything in return. The reality, again, going back to what I was saying about the same type of consumerism, is that the same people that are on OnlyFans are the same people that bought me on the street are the same individuals that are watching pornography, and they’re the same individuals that are sugar daddies.

(16:44):
So there is no difference in the demand for paid sexual access to a person. What is different is that the internet and online platforms like OnlyFans, like Reddit, have made it so that a sex buyers can continue to live with immunity and anonymity. And b it changed the, the method of communication. Now you don’t have to roll down your car window and be in front of other people to solicit sex from individuals. Now you can go online, make an avatar, create a fake profile, and chat with them via messaging and say, oh, I don’t want anything from you. Build a a anonymous relationship with this person and then go ahead and actually try to solicit this. So the consumerism is the same. It’s just different methods and how they do it. And unfortunately, as technology grows, traffickers and sex buyers also become more innovative with technology.

Fight The New Drug (17:38):
Can you just give a statement of what you mean by purchase sex? I know what you mean, but because we’re talking about porn, consumers who are more than that percentage of men is are consuming pornography. Can you speak to what you mean by purchase sex versus still perpetuating the problem by consuming pornography, even if they’re not actively purchasing sex? Does that make sense what I’m asking?

Melanie (18:00):
So, so the majority of people who purchase sex are porn consumers. And what I mean by purchasing sex, I mean exchanging money for sexual intercourse, exchanging money for a sex act usually if it’s not money, it’s exchanging something of value or need. So saying, if you perform oral sex on me, I will let you sleep here for the night. Or if you’re hungry, I’ll buy you food if you do this or if you, you know, use drugs, I will supply you with the drugs if you do this for me sexually.

Fight The New Drug (18:33):
We want to note that individuals who are consuming pornography, even if it’s free pornography, are still fueling this problem are still, are more than that percentage of men that’s purchasing sex is consuming pornography. We know that statistically in the United States and all of those things are fueling the sex trade, even if it’s not directly purchasing sex.

Melanie (18:55):
Absolutely. Even down to the viewership, right? Even for the folks who, for the men who are not actually or actively purchasing sex, even when they watch free pornography, it contributes to the viewership. And the higher the viewership, the more the production companies are saying, well, we’re doing such a great job. We’re reaching so many people. Let’s continue to make more of these videos. IE let’s continue to keep exploiting and commodifying the people that are in these are in these videos, right? So it’s all a loop and it’s all interconnected. I think what I’ve been hearing a lot of people say, or a lot of, or what I’ve seen a lot of people try to do is separate the two. Pornography is over here, prostitution and trafficking is over here. There’s no relationship, there’s no correlation. But the reality is that there is, and I think our conversation today has proven and has shown the relationship between the two. We can’t separate them inherently. They’re too in in, they’re too connected. And unfortunately, as long as we continue to see pornography, there will always be the slow, the slogan that sex sells. And I think that our culture has not shifted from that. But, and they use that slogan as a justification to allow pornography to continue. Therefore there are allowing commodification and sexual exploitation to continue. So there’s no way that we can remove the two, they’re two glued together.

Fight The New Drug (20:23):
And you mentioned pornography, we are talking about platforms like OnlyFans where pornography is alive and well, and many others, but can you speak specifically to what ways pornography and sex trafficking are connected? It’s something that many people remain so unaware of, and there are so many different ways the two industries are, are deeply interconnected. Can you speak to that a little bit?

Melanie (20:47):
Yeah, absolutely. There’s a couple of ways that they’re connected. One of them, going back to my main point about consumerism, the same individuals that are consuming pornography and it’s not all of them, but a large majority of those who consume pornography are the same individuals who are going and trying to solicit sex or purchase sexual access to people, including children or including underage minors. Additionally I always tell people, you can be trafficked into the pornography industry or you can be trafficked because you were in the pornography industry. And I think a lot of people have a large misconception around what porn actually looks like. The pornography videos and content that we see on websites that come to our phones that pop up in ads on online, by the time it gets to that point, that is not so many other things have transpired prior to that video’s release or prior to that sexual ad popping up on your computer or your phone.

(21:44):
A lot of the people that are in pornography have been exploited over and over again. The only difference between or not, lemme not say the only one of the differences between those that are in pornography and those that are in the sex trade and other avenues is that there is a, a, a contractual agreement in between. The issue, however, is that a lot of the contracts have a lot of fine print that are not discussed. A lot of the contracts can be falsified. They can say one thing and then it changes to something different. In actuality, a lot of these contracts kind of play on debt bondage a little bit, where they say that, oh, you only have to do this thing for say, 90 days. You produce six videos. But the reality is that these are individuals who end up staying longer because they say you haven’t fulfilled your contractual requirements.

(22:40):
so on, on the technical side of things, there’s that issue, but additionally, most people think that pornography is consensual sex between two adult parties. And then there’s a cameraman that is filming that. The reality however, is that a, a lot of times these are not all adults. Sometimes these are kids that are made to either look or speak or act like adults on camera B. It could be adults, but then it’s usually not just the two actors performing in these videos. We also know that the cameramen oftentimes engage. We also know that you have to audition to be in pornography and by auditioning that means you have to engage in sexual intercourse with any one of the staff members or team members in the production team. And we know that the human body, specifically the female body, can be re-exported and re-exported and sold over and over again.

(23:37):
By the time we have seen a video, it has been edited re rerecorded, the acts have been done again and again, you pause, you stop. We do it over the amount of injuries, bodily injuries that people have suffered are very similar to those who go through sex trafficking because the reality is it’s repeated paid rape. We see it in trafficking and we see it in pornography. Again, there might be a small percentage of individuals who claim that they do this, they love it, there’s nothing wrong with it, but a lot of them were groomed, a lot of them were trafficked to their or because of their, and a lot of them are still not actually aware of what’s happening. They could be still very new in the industry or they could be lied to, like the majority of us are when we’re under trafficker control.

(24:24):
So there’s a lot of connections between pornography and the sex trade, and I want folks to understand that. In addition to all of that, when we talk about the people who consume porn, what we find is that a lot of them, especially those that that suffer with a porn addiction, those individuals will watch porn and then say, you know what? This is no longer enough for me. So what we see is that they go and find marginalized people with no other options, such as myself, to act out their porn addiction on, or act out what they call their fantasies onto poor people like me who couldn’t fight back or had no other resources or, you know, they, that they viewed as disposable. So there’s no way to talk about sex trafficking without acknowledging the porn industry and vice versa.

Fight The New Drug (25:12):
It’s so well said. And additionally, you know, that’s so many ways in which within the industry, individuals can be exploited and trafficked, but pornography is also can be used to groom individuals in other scenarios. Can you speak a little bit to that as well?

Melanie (25:28):
A lot of times, traffickers or, or sex buyers will tell you to watch certain videos to either A, learn how to perform a sex act better b learn how to do a sex act at all or to try to subvert the mind and get the person that they’ve subverted or con or are controlling into a mindset that it’s, it’s a backwards way of trying to motivate you to be better in prostitution. Oh, follow what they’re doing, moan like them, move your body like them, do this, do that. Or they’ll try to say things like, see, watch this. You see how happy this person looks in the video. You can be just as happy. Or do you see how good that this person is making them feel? You can make people feel that good as well. It’s a power game. The sex trade is all about power.

(26:21):
It actually rarely has anything to do with sex. And I think that’s a misconception that people don’t talk about that often on the surface, sexual acts may be occurring. Yes. However, it’s not the actual sex that is turning people on or, or drawing people to the sex trade. If you talk with any other survivors, I can guarantee at least nine in 10 will tell you the sex is not enjoyable, because it’s not about mutual erotica. This is not about reciprocal pleasure. What this is about is about one person holding power, kind of getting off and desiring being in control of somebody with less power. And that’s, those are the dynamics that we see in porn. Those are the dynamics that we see in the sex trade. And unfortunately for people like myself who had less power or are the more marginalized or have less resources and may not actually be exposed to sex at a young age or exposed to how to do things right, pornography has, it provides a visual aid for traffickers to, to help traffickers teach you how to be better for them.

Fight The New Drug (27:30):
Yeah, and I think for any listeners who are listening and not watching this, I want them to know that when you said be better, you used air quotes or finger quotes, I guess a, a moment ago, because I do think that it, it’s important to acknowledge that, and I think it’s important to acknowledge also that a lot of this pornography that is shown to desensitize in some of these ways, which fuels that power dynamic, right? It’s desensitizing victims and survivors to a level of a abuse that becomes so normalized over time. We know there’s abuse in pornographic content. We know other harmful stereotypes about race or gender or all of these other things are promoted in pornography and then perpetuated right in this kind of grooming process, both in for individuals in these scenarios as well as to consumers who are consuming pornography at home. And so I would love to talk a little bit about some of those stereotypes. Can you speak to some of the ways that we know that pornography continuously normalizes and promotes racism and gender inequality and some of these other harmful tropes that we see?

Melanie (28:41):
Absolutely. And I, if I can, I just want to say something to your last question.

Fight The New Drug (28:45):
Of

Melanie (28:45):
Course. I’ve actually seen porn videos in my research where at the end of the video, the, the videographers or the production team will actually prompt the people that are in these videos to say things like, oh, I’m 18, I love what I do. Oh, I’m not being harmed. This is so fun. I chose to do this. And it’s clearly scripted. But that’s just another very interesting fact. When we talk about the harms in the porn industry. When we think about pornography videos and, and we think about the tags, if you actually notice it is only people of color whose videos are labeled or with derogatory terms that are related to either their skin color or their race. You’ll see things like ebony videos, chocolate, this, Ms. Caramel that you never find that with our white counterparts. When it comes to the, the Latinx population, you’ll see spicy Latina, you’ll see this, you’ll see that.

(29:47):
And it’s always related to usually food, which is quite interesting. But in addition to just the racial slurs or the terms that are used to describe this, we also know, and this is factual, that the majority of black and brown individuals suffer the most violent sex acts. Racism is systemically embedded, embedded in our country, and we can’t ignore that fact. But because of the trajectory of how that inherent racism has expanded, what we find in pornography is that the videos with white women or white passing women are videos that are either school girl related, are the ones where it’s the girlfriend experience. We know that they’re sweethearts. They’re usually students who are soliciting sex from a teacher for a good grade, or it’s a poor white girl on the side of the road who’s getting picked up. I’m using air quotes again.

(30:49):
who’s getting picked up by, you know, a, a white savior man who’s going to help her? And then of course, another air quote, helping her means having sex with her. But when it comes to black and brown individuals in these videos, we see the spanking, the choking, the throwing them down on the floor, the being violent. And now we see this transfer into the sex trade because sex buyers, again, who are the same consumers of pornography they actually purchase sexual access to us to treat us the same way that we see in these videos. We find that in the sex trade, you have the girlfriend experience for white women where you can pretend to be on dates with them and pretend to take them to dinner before you actually have sex with them. Whereas with black women, you pay us to bark like a dog, get on our knees, slap us around, gag us, make us cry excuse me, make tears come out on purpose.

(31:44):
and these are just very, very minute examples for the sake of time, I can go on and on for hours about this, but we know that the most violent sex acts are perpetuated against us black and brown individuals. Whereas with white women, there’s, there’s a added level of softness or intimacy with that. And it’s not, and I wanna make very clear that it’s not to say that white women are not exploited and that white women don’t experience rape or assault or any kind of negative factors in the sex trade, because the reality is that sex trafficking is not pretty for anybody. However, in the minds of a sex buyer or a porn consumer in, they feel that they are doing more of a service to the white woman because this is innate, innate and inherent ideology that white women are cleaner, black women are dirty, white women don’t deserve to be here, black women, this is where they belong. You know, if you’re Spanish, you’re sexual. If you’re black, you’re inherently a Jezebel. But with white women this is just about like either shyness or curiosity or sexual liberation. And black and brown individuals are not afforded that same kind of thought process when it comes to pornography in the sex trade.

Fight The New Drug (32:57):
Yeah, and this is, I mean, obviously really concerning when individuals are consuming this content o often from such a young age that they’re not really analyzing the content that they’re consuming, they’re just, there’s an endless feed of different types of videos. And if these messages are what’s being sent even subconsciously, individuals are taking this information in, right? And it’s affecting the way that consumers or sex buyers go into the world thinking about other people. And so this is something we, we should be so aware of. And I think in addition to these, you know, harmful racial stereotypes that are perpetuated, there are also harmful gender stereotypes. I remember several years ago we were able to interview Taina Bime, which is the executive director of the Coalition Against Trafficking in Women. And she said something I think about so often, she said, so long as a woman is purchasable by a man, we will never have gender equality. And I can you speak a little bit to what you see with regard to gender and the work that you do at the coalition and trafficking in women as well, within pornography and, and the sex trade?

Melanie (34:05):
Absolutely. And, and I think Taina was absolutely right. The reality is that, like I said earlier, the sex trade is a gender-based violence issue. Now, granted, there are men and boys who are exploited in trafficked. Absolutely. There are men, there are people that identify on the LGBTQ plus spectrum that are exploited. Absolutely. But the reality is that there’s a vast majority that are women and girls. And again, that goes back to this innate ideology in our society, that women are second class citizens, that women are weak, that women were concubines, that women were made. Their sole purpose was to only reproduce and, and be sexual servants to their partners, usually their marital partners. When we think about history that has transferred all the way to today with how we’re seeing, again, going back to this idea of power imbalance, right? This is not just power imbalance as it pertains to who has more money.

(34:59):
This also pertains to, well, who has the, who’s more sexually dominant? and in this case, men predominantly feel that they can, that women are sexual products, that they are disposable, that their only purpose is to serve them, these men sexually. So we see that that’s one form of, of some gender violence and gender inequality in this issue. Additionally, when it comes to those who are LGBTQ plus identifying, including the trans population, or rather, especially talking about the trans population, there is this innate attachment that anybody on the spectrum is hypersexual. And I believe that, I believe, and I’ve heard from people that there is this notion that if you are gay or lesbian or anywhere on the spectrum when it comes to sexuality, that it is your rite of passage to be in prostitution. That the only way that lgbtq plus folks can make a living is by engaging in prostitution.

(36:05):
That it’s in our culture. And I say our, because I’m in the community as well there’s this idea that it culturally we have to engage in prostitution. That’s how you eat. That’s how you maintain shelter. That’s how people will find you attractive. And unfortunately, we on the spectrum and especially the transgender population, we are extra targeted in the system of prostitution because we are sought after fetishized and, and eroticized for having either multiple body parts having two both masculine and feminine body parts at as at once. And or because we are considered not the norm. We’re not, we don’t fit into that binary. And people are, as much as they hate on that, they’re also fascinated by that. And unfortunately, what we see and how that translates in the sex trade is that more sex buyers are continuing to find us, to solicit us, to commodify us, and then to, for lack of a better word, or figuratively speaking, spit on us.

(37:12):
And I pause because I’m thinking it’s not actually that figurative it’s, it can be literal as well, but the, the reality is that there’s an added layer of discrimination. And there are people especially there are either people who want to purchase sexual access to us because they’re fascinated, but there’s also this entire group of people that want to purchase sexual access because they want to basically sex the gay away, or, or conversion therapy in their own mind. People are really sick sometimes. And the reality is that in addition to it just being gender, a gender-based violence issue for the two main binary genders, then you have this added layer for those who don’t fall into those categories. So it makes the sex, the sex trade even worse and more targeting towards our communities.

Fight The New Drug (38:02):
Yeah. I, you are so knowledgeable on this topic, and I want to I want our listeners to be able to hear from you. What do you think is the most compelling information you have to really convey to people what the issue of sex trafficking looks like today? what do you think people are uninformed about or misinformed about? or what, what is something you just wish everyone knew? If everyone knew this, maybe, you know, things would be different. What would you, how would you answer that?

Melanie (38:36):
That is so big, , that’s such a big question because I have, there’s so many, there’s so many things that I want folks to know. One being, and I’m, and I’m really sad that I even have to say this, that it happens in America. People still think it doesn’t happen here. And there are movies out there that don’t help with that, with that, it does happen in America. It does happen in inner cities, and it doesn’t only happen in urban places, it can happen in suburban rural areas as well. I want people to know that despite what we’re seeing in the media movies that are coming out despite music videos that are glamorizing pimp culture you know, and despite there being a rise in in kinks and, and sex positivity movements and sexual empowerment, I want folks to understand that there is no part of prostitution that is sexually empowering.

(39:34):
There might be a few folks, you might have a next door neighbor that will say, oh, I love sex work and sex work is great. And the, the reality is that there’s nothing glamorous about it. Whether you have people who say that they love it or don’t, there’s always harm and violence at the center. And the reality is that, that I really want to emphasize here for folks, is that there is never a situation where we are in control when it comes to this industry or these industries. I think our society is missed misconstrued because they, they only focus on the surface level choice. People only look at it like, oh, well, she chose to strip, or she said she likes sex work ’cause it’s fast money. Or he said he likes to do this because of whatever The reality is, if there were no sex buyers, if there were no consumers of pornography, if there were nobody that were opening their wallets to get sexual access or pay for what they wanted, there would be no sex trade.

(40:39):
There would be no pornography industry. None of these things would exist. Everything would cease to exist if there was no demand for it. And I want people to understand that the only reason that there are debates or discourse, or even conversations around if this is empowerment or positive or whatever, is because the consumers and the demand exists for it. Have there not been anybody interested in this, traffickers wouldn’t, wouldn’t sell, people wouldn’t solicit. There would be none of us having to go through the things that I’ve experienced, because nobody, it wouldn’t be in demand. Nobody would want that. So when we look at the next movie that comes out about stripping, when we hear another young person say they want to quit school and do OnlyFans, when we talk about people, or when we hear people making jokes about sugar dating and sugar daddies, I just want folks to recognize that it’s not funny. There’s nothing glamorous about the sex trade. And no matter what buzzwords come out, we will never fully have the true choice. The true choice rely excuse me, the true choice lies in the hands of those who have the economic and, and other forms of power.

Fight The New Drug (41:53):
That’s so well said. You just gave us some very clear, tangible ways that we can all end sexual exploitation, which is to quote Val Richie, don’t buy sex. And so many others, you know, don’t watch pornography, don’t consume pornography, don’t engage in these things. But even more broadly than that, can you speak to ways big or small that, that you see as the most effective ways individuals can help combat these issues and stop the demand over time, right? Change this create momentum, fuel the momentum that so many doing work like yourself have created that so many survivors have created. What’s the best most effective thing that individuals can do to help?

Melanie (42:39):
There’s so many things that people can do that I think we overlook because we feel that we are not prominent enough to make actual change. Some of it can go down to voting, right? Who, look at your local legislators, look up what they support. I can’t tell you how many people I speak to that don’t know who their local city, city council member is, or their local state senator. Look at the laws that they support. Are there, are they supporting laws that are contributing to the increase in trafficking and prostitution? Check those things out. Write to them. You can easily send emails, letters, things like that. Additionally, if you have the means, donate big or small to any anti-trafficking organization that sits with your heart, but that’s actually doing meaningful work, working directly with survivors. In my opinion, if I could, I would donate to every survivor led organization that’s doing great work.

(43:34):
so just finding those, those ways to donate. Additionally spreading awareness, right? People overlook the importance of that. I just told you that there are people that still don’t even know that prostitution and trafficking exists in the us. They think that it only happens in places like China or India. Had we spread awareness that those minds could change. So if you have access to things like church groups, PTA meetings, book clubs, ladies who lunch, anybody that you can pass the word or message on, tell ’em about it. Educate them. If you don’t, if you yourself need more education, find forums like this. Listen to podcasts like this. Listen to interviews by survivors and, and really learn more about the issue. And lastly, I wanna say, when we talk about ending the demand long term, and I wanna speak directly to men for a second I think all of us can play a key role in this, but there is a lack of male, male allyship in this issue, in combating exploitation, in combating trafficking.

(44:38):
And it’s unfortunate. We know that the majority of the population of perpetrators that are in the sex trade are predominantly men. But we also know on the flip side, that out of the population of men completely in America, the majority of men do not wanna buy sex. So I’m talking to the 89% of men in America that don’t want to purchase sex from people. I’m talking to you. It starts in small conversations. I like to say it starts at home. And by home, I don’t necessarily just mean your house. I’m also talking about every time you go have a beer with a friend, your male friend, anytime you sit in a college classroom where you know that your male friend is a douche bag, but you don’t say anything, I’m talking about every time that your boy says he wants to go get drunk for his bachelor party, or wants to go to a strip club or wants to go and commodify women say, Hey, bro, that’s not cool, I think because of toxic masculinity, and I think we can do an entire other episode on that alone.

(45:41):
But because of toxic masculinity, there’s this, there’s this idea that men have to adopt machismo, and they need to be very, you know, very full of testosterone and a guy’s guy and a bad boy. And it also includes keeping your mouth shut and not checking your male friends on things that you know, isn’t so nice. A lot of men stay quiet and engaging in the bystander effect is just as bad as the person who’s going to purchase me. So if you are going to a strip club for a bachelor party and your friend starts grabbing on the woman’s body, or throwing coins, or making a mockery just because you didn’t engage with that, if you stood there and watched it, it’s just the same thing. So I, I encourage men to engage in more conversations. Don’t be afraid to speak up if you’re one of the only four men that don’t want to engage in that. You know, if your friends say something that sounds and looks like sexual assault or, or any kind of abuse in that way, call it out. Don’t be afraid to lose that friendship because maybe it’s not that healthy or conducive for you anyway. But I think that we need to engage more men in the conversation, and we need men to be able to speak up more so that it can actually change.

Fight The New Drug (47:00):
And I would just add to that, an invitation to men and, and women, but especially men in this instance, to also have conversations about pornography in the same way, right? That’s something that is so normalized, but also rarely spoken about for so many men. And I think just opening that door you know, we’ve spoken with other individuals on this podcast who do work specifically with men and, and them being able to speak to the power of men coming together and saying, Hey, you know, we’ve all experienced this thing that’s normalized but maybe isn’t great for us or our relationships or society and, and you can do something about it. So I would just extend that invitation as well.

Melanie (47:37):
Like, I would say combat it, right? Because

Fight The New Drug (47:39):
Yeah,

Melanie (47:40):
Again, we can have episodes on so many other things as well as it pertains to these issues, but we know that societally pornography has been used as a form of sex, sex education. And we know that pornography is not real sex. It’s a fallacy. So I completely understand why it may feel hard, why these conversations are not being had out in the open, especially when it comes to men. But I, I also know that the men that, that are in my life that I know who have actually took the first step to have those conversations around pornography and recognizing how harmful pornography has been just for their intimate lives, it has made such a difference in the way that they’ve personally grown. So I know that change can be made when men come together. I’m just urging you men to take the first step and do it.

Fight The New Drug (48:31):
Absolutely agreed. And we’ve seen that on our end as well. We’ve seen that change. We hear so often from individuals who have listened to podcast episodes, who’ve engaged with resources from our organization or others like yours who are creating that change in their lives and are finding how much their lives are improving in their relationships. So I just wanna add that encouragement as well. And then to transition a little bit to survivors what encouragement do you have for other survivors who want to become advocates in this space, but are maybe unsure of how, where to where to begin?

Melanie (49:08):
The first thing I wanna say is that it gets easier. Don’t give up at first. In the beginning, it is very confusing. There’s a lot of different orgs, there’s a lot of different people you may not know the language, legal jargon is jarring. Things of that nature. So don’t give up when it comes to where to start. Do a simple Google search. I know everybody has different forms of advice on where to begin. Do a simple Google search on just trafficking organizations or, you know, sexual exploitation orgs in your area. And then from there, I kind of say, work the pyramid downward. Start with what you find when you do more research into these organizations. You’ll see if some of them have survivor advisory boards or some don’t. A lot of them have survivor leadership programs. Look into those things. Additionally, try to find survivor led orgs.

(49:56):
but also it can be as small or as minute as looking into survivor support groups or just survivor communities. I always tell people if they have no idea where to begin, you can look at Elevate shameless plug for Rebecca Bender. That platform has helped many, many, many survivors begin their first journeys. But they also give you a lot of different resources to other people who, or other organizations that are helping survivors when they first, first exit or they’re first beginning their advocacy journeys. But then also I, I would say there’s a podcast that I would recommend in addition to this exit Wound where I’m the host and exit wounds you can find on all platforms. And it’s specific to this. It talks about survivors from when they first exit to when they become a leader in following that journey. So those are just a couple places to start.

Fight The New Drug (50:49):
Melanie, thank you so much for your time and for all of your amazing work and activism in this space. For any of our listeners who want to support you or learn more about you or your work specifically can you direct them one more time to any resources you’d like them to consider?

Melanie (51:07):
Yeah, absolutely. So I would urge you all to check out equality model ny.org. That is where you can find information about the legislation that I support, but also you’ll read Survivor statements. You’ll read a lot more about our position on this issue from a technical sense. And if you want to hear more about the personal journeys of survivors, or if you’re a survivor and you wanna learn how to get more involved in the movement or just a place to listen to the reality of this, I would urge you to listen or watch my podcast, exit Wound, the Journey of Exploitation and Beyond. You can find it on anywhere you get your podcast, Spotify, apple Podcasts, and for those who like to watch it YouTube.

Fight The New Drug (51:50):
Thank you so much, Melanie.

Melanie (51:52):
Thank you.

Promo (52:03):
Our annual rep, the Movement Day is on Friday, November 22nd rep. The Movement Day happens every year during our No Porn November campaign, and we encourage our fighters to rep the movement in one of our conversation starting teases so they can spread awareness about the harms of pornography and show their support for this global cause. Don’t have fighter gear yet. There’s still time. Check out our conversation starting merch now at ftnd.org/shop. That’sF-T-N-D.O.R-G/shop.

(52:35):
What started in 2009 as a group of college friends who shared a passion for positively impacting the world, has grown into a worldwide movement of millions. But with over 8 billion people on earth, there’s still a lot of work to do. And as a global grassroots movement, we need everyone to help raise awareness on the harms of porn, help others recognize how porn can impact themselves, their relationships, and their communities. With our new digital Downloads resource, simply select, download and print or share with your community, post your feed, or pin a flyer to your local community board. To start the conversation today, explore our library of free downloadable resources at ftnd.org/downloads. That’s F-T-N-D.O-R-G/downloads to start sharing Fight The New Drug’s resources throughout your community.

Outro (53:28):
Thanks for joining us on this episode of Consider Before Consuming. Consider Before Consuming is brought to you by Fight the New Drug. Fight The New Drug is a non-religious and a non legislative organization that exists to provide individuals the opportunity to make an informed decision regarding pornography by raising awareness on its harmful effects, using only science, facts and personal accounts. Check out the episode notes for resources mentioned in this episode. If you find this podcast helpful, consider subscribing and leaving a review. Consider Before Consuming is made possible by listeners like you. If you’d like to support, consider before Consuming, you can make a one time or recurring donation of any amount at ftnd.org/support. That’s F-T-N-D.O-R-G/support.

(54:17):
Thanks again for listening. We invite you to increase your self-awareness, look both ways, check your blind spots, and consider before consuming.