Garrett:
For the listeners who aren’t familiar with who you are, can you answer some general questions, Just like who you are, where you’re from before we dive into your experience and talk about sexual exploitation?

Teresa:
Sure. My name’s Teresa J. Helm and, amongst other things in life, I am a survivor leader and an advocate and a mentor and a speaker. And I advocate a lot, for sexual abuse and exploitation survivors. The other things that I am, and I’m a mom of two amazing, brilliant, wonderful kids. And, I have a background in healthcare. I’m a student midwife.

Garrett:
Out of all of those things, what are you most proud of?

Teresa:
Being a mom.

Garrett:
Yeah. That’s good. Yeah. I was hoping that was gonna be your answer for sure. Going back to one of the things on your resume, you are currently working with NCOSE. Can you speak to what they do, who they are and what your role is there?

Teresa:
So NCOSE is the National Center on Sexual Exploitation. We are an organization nationally and both internationally that is, fighting against sexual exploitation and abuse through advocacy. We support survivors. We are an organization of litigation, with our NCOSE Law Center as we fight back and fight for survivors of, image-based sexual assaults or, you know, we fight for clients through litigation that have been exploited. And I am the survivor services coordinator with the law center and I provide ongoing support to survivors through the litigation process.

Garrett:
Well, we at Fight The New Drug are big fans of NCOSE and so we just want to express that and express how grateful for how grateful we are for the work that you are doing. You mentioned that at NCOSE you were called the survivor leader. Did I get that right?

Teresa:
Yes.

Garrett:
And what does that title mean to you?

Teresa:
What that means to me is that I am taking my experience of past trauma and I am regaining and reclaiming my power that, was basically robbed from me through those experiences in the past. And I am bringing those experiences forward, to teach others in addition to healing myself. Which I believe either has to be a certain level of healing to be a survivor leader. And so through taking my experience and really shifting it and reclaiming my power to then go out and fight back and fight for others and teach others and support others so that we can as a whole, you know, really, stake our claim in making change.

Garrett:
I want to ask you a question off the cuff. I’m just gonna follow my curiosity here. And it’s regarding trauma. I recently learned from, professor cuz I’m also in school, and she was talking about how she defines trauma as not the negative event, but how our bodies respond to that negative event. Hmm. And so that was kind of new to me because I have, I had always learned about trauma as being the traumatic event being the negative event. Where she defines trauma as how our bodies respond to that negative event. Hmm. So anyway, I set that question up with that explanation and the question to you is, how do you define trauma?

Teresa:
Well, I would say that in part she’s entirely accurate because, you know, we all have what we would call a somatic response to trauma. Somatic means, or soma means body. So we all have a physical, mental, emotional response to the actual event that traumatized us. However, the actual event, you know, that that is certainly a part of the trauma, where it crosses the line into the event versus the response, being the actual trauma. You know, those, those lines intersect and intercross, at least in my viewpoint and perspective, which may be different from someone else that makes sense as a survivor, but they really, yeah. It’s like an intersection.

Garrett:
Yeah, that makes sense. So then my original question was about your healing process. And you talked about how at NCOSE you have to have had experienced, healing. To be able to lead others. And it’s obvious that you’ve experienced healing. But my question is, since starting with NCOSE, have you experienced more healing? Because I don’t know if a healing journey ever is gonna end.

Teresa:
I don’t think a healing journey ever does end. I do believe that I will be on the path always and the path will always shift and be different from time to time. Yeah. So certainly all the work that I do with NCOSE prior to NCOSE, does help in the healing process. Right.

Garrett:
Helping others helps yourself in, in return as well.

Teresa:
Right. Helping is healing. Yeah. Is what I always say often is helping, is healing for sure. Right.

Garrett:
Yes. I think that it’s important for our listeners to understand what is sex trafficking. Can you start off by giving the definition of how, what is sex trafficking?

Teresa:
Sex trafficking is, it’s sexual abuse, trauma, exploitation by force fraud, coercion, or some type of gain from another party. It’s a psychological process usually it often happens within family dynamic. So it’s, you know, it’s the violation of a, of another human being, for someone else’s gain. Yeah.
It’s ultimately what it is. Yeah.

Garrett:
Now that we know what trafficking is regarding you, you said you used the words force fraud, coercion. What about grooming? What is, what does grooming look like and why is it important that we understand that process?

Teresa:
Yeah. Well, grooming is the, what I always refer to as essentially the gateway to abuse. Yeah. If you do not have, if a predator is unable to successfully complete a grooming process, then the abuse just doesn’t really have the opportunity to happen. And that is in person that is online, which there is a, huge online presence of grooming and, trafficking through online platforms currently. So grooming will be very psychological. It’s, it is, you know, the components to it are befriending, building trust, isolating, flattery. If it’s in person, you might notice a child, with, you know, special items that they wouldn’t normally have new shoes, multiple cell phones. They might start to pull away from their typical activities that they’ve always enjoyed, friends that they’ve always hung out with, they might choose to start to avoid. And again, that’s kind of where the isolation starts.

And again, the online as well, you know, we have online platforms, chat rooms where predators are basically lurking, seeking, start, you know, they initiate conversations and they ask questions. Then the questions lead to, you know, what the child or the minor might consider an online friendship. And then, you know, questions of what they like to do, where they are start to come into play. And, you know, again, the build of the friendship. Then there’s the build of the trust, and then there’s, once the trust is established, then other psychological factors come into play and there can be some blackmail and requests for photos and the isolation continues. And, once it has reached that point, a an online predator has pretty much, sealed the deal on the process of grooming and that targeted individual online, well, they then, they now are controlled, typically controlled by this, online predator.

Garrett:
Some of these things can also be blame, like you can blame changes in mood and increased isolation on just being an adolescent or being a kid. Right. Sure. And I think that’s one of the difficult things that we as parents, we as caregivers, we have to, identify and then address, right, is that some of these changes, it, it could be that your kids being groomed or it could be that you’re just the kids just experiencing what it is to be an adolescent with. Hormonal changes and whatnot. So how do parents identify if this is just a change in behavior that’s normal with adolescent growth or if it’s actual actually a, a potential grooming process?

Teresa:
Well, parents like it or not are going to have to be, really nosy, and they’re going to have to, what the teenager will inevitably say is a violation of their privacy. But the parents will have to understand and learn and know who they’re talking to online. They’ll need to know who their friends are online and in the real world. Yeah. They’ll need to ask lots of questions all the time. They’ll need to get to the point where they’re a teenager swears up and down that they’re the worst parent ever for asking all the questions because number one, better safe than sorry, always. You never know when it’s going to happen. And I think that one of the most biggest somewhat simple messages that I can express, I mean, I really would like to, you know, shout it from the rooftops, is don’t ever assume it will not or could not happen to your family. Online safety especially, should be as basic as wearing a seatbelt.

Garrett:
Well, one of the strengths that you have, in your position at na OSI and just all the things that you’re up to is that you do have personal experience with exploitation. Unfortunately, the, the strength you have, it’s unfortunate that you have to have that, right? But, but your negative experiences, the trauma you’ve experienced, they, and because you’ve healed from them and are pressing forward and all those things. You are stronger today because of that negative experience. Is that safe to say or no?

Teresa:
Well, yeah, I mean, I’m certainly, I would feel that I have, a warrior’s heart. Um, so strength is definitely something that I’ve cultivated.

Garrett:
Yes. Yeah. Before we jump into your experience. A little bit more, can you speak to that, how your experience has empowered you to provide improved and, and effective trauma informed care?

Teresa:
Yeah. Because as a survivor, there are, you know, when you walk into, as a survivor, you walk into a room with other survivors, there’s a, a nearly immediate unspoken bond.

You know, we don’t, we wouldn’t, there could be 10 of us in a room and not necessarily have to say a word Yeah. But feel a bond. Just being there together, knowing that we’re all survivors. So that’s the number one thing right out of the gate. Number two, you know, as a survivor, I have the ability to obviously highly, you know, have a huge amount of empathy for, for them. Yeah. Even though our experiences may, might be different, and I will always have an entirely different view of nearly everything than a person that does not have a lived experience with trauma. Right. So, I will always have a different view that I can, it’s almost like I can see that person. Yeah. It’s just a high level of empathy. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. And, and so my interaction with that person is just, it’s just a lot different.

And it just really enable, it’s, it just really gives me the opportunity and the ability to connect with other survivors in ways that others may not be able to. And then there is some kind of trust and bond built in that. And then that kind again, really, you know, I just, I kind of envision it like walking hand in hand, or if I’m mentoring, I do, I’ve done a lot of mentoring as well with survivors that aren’t quite, you know, they’re in their healing or they’re starting their healing, or they haven’t even started yet. Yeah. You know, I can really walk with them because I’ve been through a lot of the things that they haven’t gone through or they’re, you know, in the sick of I’ve been through.

Garrett:
You’re in a good spot. You seem like a sharp person and, you Yeah. You know, it gives them hope for Right. Their, their future.

Teresa:
Right. That’s definitely one of, one of my goals is to hopefully inspire.

Garrett:
Well, I think you’re accomplishing that goal, so congratulations.

Teresa:
Well, thank you. Appreciate that.

Garrett:
You re part of a, a high profile case with. Jeffrey Epstein and. His accomplice, Ghislaine Maxwell. And you, you happened to be one of their victims.

Teresa:
Right.

Garrett:
And I’m wondering if you can speak to that a little bit, how that initial contact with them came about?

Teresa:
Yes. So I was 22 and I think what’s important for others to learn or know is at the age of eight, for myself, from the ages of eight to 11 and a half, I was sexually abused. So three and a half years of my life, that was, that’s a chunk of time. There was a lot of struggle in that and there was a lot of really, really trying very hard to fight for healing, as a teenager, growing up after that, and as a young adult, I felt like at the point when I was 22 and I, ended up meeting, you know, or being brought into this world of exploitation, I was really on a path at that point in my life where I wanted to, I wanted to be, I wanted to be something great. You know, I wanted to work hard.

I wanted to do something really good. I wanted to help others. Yeah. I had moved across the country, at the age of 22 and moved to California and I was in massage therapy school and I was doing really well. And I was the top student of the class. And I also worked full-time at the front desk. So that’s how, that’s where it began as a massage therapy student. And I was approached one day by a, a student that was in a program there at the school. She was ahead of me in her program. She first presented an opportunity to me to be a personal, traveling massage therapist, and asked if I was interested. I told her I was, I asked her why she wasn’t doing it cuz she said it was such a great opportunity. And I said, well, why aren’t you doing it, you know, if it’s so great?

And she said she had a family commitment and couldn’t go. And so then I had these, contact details to meet a girl named Sarah Callen. Sarah Callen and I met at the beach and had a really long conversation and a nice walk on Santa Monica Beach. She, Sarah told me about this opportunity to be a private traveling massage therapist. She referred to a woman named Ms. Maxwell, and she told me how, you know, it was a once in a lifetime opportunity, traveled the world, I could have all the education at all the best institutions that I wanted, all around the world that Ms. Maxwell had, has had the best education and would provide the same for me. You know, private chefs, meeting lots of people, private jet. And at the time, I certainly took, I, you know, this girl Sarah, she, she was, I, I mean, I related to her, you know, I, we looked somewhat similar.

We were similar in age. She was very pleasant to me. So that right there is part of the process. I mean, the process started with the first girl at the school that approached me. Right. You know, that’s where the grooming started. Right. Telling me about the opportunity, really building it up, getting me excited, knowing that I was a young student, working the front desk at the school, meeting Sarah at the beach, you know, what she said was her apartment at the beach before we went on the walk again, as a young aspiring student, traveling the world, being doing something I love, you know, massage therapy was a dream come true. So when I meet a young girl at the beach and she says it’s her apartment, you know, I moved to California for one of the reasons why is because I wanted to be near the beach.

You know, I wanted to live that California dream. So again, part of the process is, is building rapport, building the rapport, building the relationship, almost like a friendship type conversation to the point where that’s where I felt by the end of it, that she was my friend. And I was very, very excited. And I thought that meeting Ms. Maxwell was going, you know, that I was going to be off to meet Ms. Maxwell, in New York City is where I told, was told that she would, that I would be meeting her. So within a couple of weeks time, I had flight and travel arrangements and was flown from Los Angeles to New York City. And, you know, that’s, once I, after I arrived is when I met Ms. Maxwell. And, you know, they had a driver for me. And, you know, so many different components about it. All, all of it was part of the grooming process. Everything was intentional, emotional connections were made. You know, a driver with my name on a sign, picking me up from the airport, making me feel special, making me feel tended to cared for all the things, was all a part of the process.

Garrett:
All of that were outward signs of the success.

Teresa:
Yeah. Like, yes, success we’re, we, we welcome you. We want you here. You’re, you know, we’re gonna take care of you. Yeah. All of that was a part again, of the process. And so, after I arrived to New York City, then I walked to, Ms. Maxwell’s home because it was not far from where I was staying. And, you know, that’s, that’s when I met her.

Garrett:
Before I ask the question, I want to reemphasize the legal definition of sex trafficking is a commercial sex act induced by force fraud, coercion, or underage involvement. You were 22 years old, so underage involvement isn’t gonna be a factor, but force fraud, coercion is kind of what we’re looking for. And so I think that fraud and coercion have already occurred. Because they’re misrepresenting themselves. Sure. Yes. But, as of right now, you still don’t know that. At what point did the exploitation occur and what, what factors do you identify today as being the factors they used most prominently? Was it forced fraud or coercion?

Teresa:
Well, there was a lot of fraud, coercion, and, and there was threat, at the end of it all. I was there under false, you know, it was all fraud. It was fraud situation was fraud. Right. Yeah. You know, I was there clearly thinking that I was there for a job interview as a massage therapist. Yes. And, you know, I spent the afternoon with Galen Maxwell and all the things about all the conversation we had that was all part of the grooming process, all the emotional connections she was making with me. I felt wonderful that I was at her house. And then after spending hours there and doing a whole massage and going through all my steps as a student thinking, hoping I’m doing it perfectly well, then at the very end of it is when I first learned from Gelan that I would be going to see her partner Jeffrey.

So the entire time from sitting at the office in behind the desk that day at school, when the first girl approached me to standing there in Galen’s home in New York City, I never knew that there was a man named Jeffrey or any man that I was going to be meeting throughout any of this interview process. Yeah. So once Gelan told me, I, you know, you’re going to go meet with my partner Jeffrey, and so that, that’s when I found out. And at that point in time, though, there was enough trust established, from spending the afternoon with her, that I didn’t think that I was in any kind of harm. I didn’t think that there there was any reason for me to be, that I should be concerned with my safety. Right. Right. So, I, you know, I walked, I walked there, later that day, I walked to Jeffrey’s home, thinking that I was going to go seal the deal on the job. I thought that I, I thought that the had ju, you know, the interview process had gone so well with Gelan that I’m now going to go seal the deal and secure this job position.

Garrett:
Right. This opportunity with air quotes.

Teresa:
Right. So, I, I mean, I literally walked myself to the home of a predator. I walked myself there. And that’s another point that I really emphasize and can’t say enough and hope that the message is very loud and clear. I walked myself to this man’s home that was going to then assault me. Hmm. No one took me there, no one’s tied me up and dragged me there. Hmm. I very even excitedly thinking that it was a job interview. I, I was excited to go there. He assaulted me and I got myself out of there. And he threatened me as I left. I didn’t go back after that time. Yeah. There was never, there was never a time that I went back.

Garrett:
Oh, wow.

Teresa:
And there was an email that I had received after I had been flown back to Los Angeles, and it was such a mind twist that email, because they treated the email. They, you know, it was Jeffrey’s assistant thanking me for coming out, thanking me for the interview, and telling me I was still being considered for the position. Just normalizing all of it.

Garrett:
Going back to one of the statements you made as we journeyed into your, your, the exploitation you experienced, the assault that you ex experienced, you referred back to when you were young, you mentioned. How between the ages of eight and 11 and a half. You experienced child sexual abuse. And obviously that is a serious thing. And, you know, we, we don’t want to gloss over that. And I’m wondering if you can speak to why you mentioned that and if, if it facilitated more assault or more abuse, or if it was normalized for you because you had had, because you had experienced childhood sexual abuse.

Teresa:
Yes. So oftentimes when you are a survivor of childhood sexual abuse, you typically end up growing up to be an adult victim as well. Statistically speaking. It’s just way more prevalent to be an adult victim if you were a victim as a child. That’s a highly unfortunate fact and statistic. Right. Um, so do I, do I feel it is important for me, me to mention that because number one, it’s very much so a part of my experience, right. As a, as a human. Yeah.It definitely went into the vulnerability factor, you know, that was kind of built into me. The shame was after what had happened with Epstein and Maxwell, the shame was so overwhelming, it was paralyzing to me. Yeah. And so that took me back to the shame Oh yeah. That I had carried, as a child, I really feel like groomers are able to take the shame that they should feel as a human being for destroying another, or trying to Yeah. And they shift it to the victim. And now the victim has only, has not only been, you know, victimized or, violated in whatever way, but they’re, they’re now also carrying that shame. Yeah. And it, it’s kind of like the, the nail in the coffin, you know, it shame is crippling.

Garrett:
Yeah. At what point did you realize that, Ghislaine Maxwell and Jeffrey Epstein had other victims and that you weren’t the only one?

Teresa:
You know, the, it’s a really kind of bizarre way that I found out because I, you know, again, I was dealing with a lot of the aftermath of the assault for a few years, and then I became a mom, and that changed my life. I mean, it saved my life Oh, wow. When I became pregnant with my son, and it was literally what saved my life. Wow. And when I was pregnant, and then I realized for probably one of the first times in my life, the value that I actually had as a human being. You know, w it was literally the first time I felt like I had value was when I was pregnant. And I thought, I’m gonna do everything that I can to protect this child and to be the best me that I can be, or try to be the best me so I can be the best mom to this child, you know?

And so my pregnancy was wonderful and amazing, and I loved it. And it, like I said, it, it really transformed me. So then becoming a mom, you know, I kind of, I went into a chosen isolation. It wasn’t like a dark type isolation. It was like, I don’t want any part of the world, but to be a mom. And I went back to school and I was really just kind of doing my own thing. Yeah. So you, you might, some would say, oh, you were pushing it all away. Well, kind of, I was pushing it all away. There’s

Garrett:
Boundaries. There’s a difference between like isolation and boundaries, it sounds like.

Teresa:
Yeah. Well, sure. But I really was just adamant about being on this whole different path in life. That’s cool. And so I didn’t share, like I said, about what happened. I didn’t, now I know, it, you know, there was some news stuff about Epstein and things that were right. 2008, I didn’t hear a, a word of it because in 2008, I was busy being a student nursing my son. Yeah. And like, literally listening to classical music, like, I didn’t even turn the TV on. And I, I really just was not, I didn’t, I didn’t, I wanted to block out the world, but I, you know, I was listening to, a YouTube show, and I started hearing all this talk about a man named Epstein. And you know, of course, I, the content, I was like, man, this sounds horrible. What a person.

And then there was a conversation I remember, I’ll never forget, it was like a Sunday evening, and I’m like, folding my kids’ laundry at home. I’m listening to this YouTube channel. It was like these two guys around my age. And they started talking about Epstein in the whole deal. And then they mentioned the word ma, the name Maxwell. And Maxwell immediately, you know, was like, oh, I know that name. But they were talking about Robert Maxwell in the, in the conversation. Oh. But they were talking about Maxwell in New York City and Epstein, and then the, the content. And I was like, ah, maybe I should look into, what are they talking about? Who are they talking about? And then I just, I found myself avoiding it, and it kept popping up for like Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday. I just kept, it, kept nagging at me to check into it.

And I just, I, I kept pushing it away. Didn’t want to. Yeah. A Thursday morning, I’ll never forget, this was in July of 2019, this is when I found out to answer your question. So that Thursday morning, I plugged my phone in and I had accidentally swiped to the news headlines on my phone, and I saw a news headline that read Jeffrey Epstein in Jail Cell in the Fetal Position. And immediately I thought, wow, this grown man, I, a grown man crawled up in the fetal position, and I was just like, flooded with all this sympathy for this grown man crawled up into the fetal position. And then I set my phone down and walked away. And then I literally stopped like five feet in my tracks. And I, there was like, Teresa, you have to go back and click on that headline. So I walked back to my phone and I clicked on that headline.
And the moment I did, his face popped up, and it was the picture of him in that Harvard University sweatshirt. And then the moment I saw his face, in that picture, I mean, my entire world shifted again. And it has never been the same since. And again, it was like a re-traumatization because it was only in that moment that I realized who Epstein was, because I only knew him as Jeffrey the entire time. I never knew his last name. Oh, wow. And I was only introduced to him as Jeffrey, and Gelan only spoke with about him as Jeffrey. So I didn’t know Jeffrey Epstein. And it was in that moment that I realized that Jeffrey Epstein was the man that assaulted me. And I sat right down on my computer and I Googled Gelan Maxwell, Jeffrey Epstein, and literally the world, just like I said, it, it’ll never be the same

Garrett:
With Epstein. We all know what’s happened to him, but with Maxwell. We also know that she’s been convicted. Yeah. Of conspiracy to sex traffic minors. Sex trafficking of minors. And all those other things. And she’s been convicted to 20 years. 20 years. But you weren’t, if I’m not mistaken, and this is the question, you weren’t part of the trial for against Maxwell. Correct?

Teresa:
That’s right. There, there was always an a chance that I would have been called to witness, and I was clearly not. Okay. So no. And I attended a portion of the trial and no, is not a part of it.

Garrett:
Do you look at Maxwell’s conviction as a win?

Teresa:
I look at it as a step in the right direction. You know, in that question, it’s like, part of me wants to say, yeah, it’s, it’s a bit of a victory. It’s a little bit of justice. And I, and I believe that it is a little bit of justice. I just don’t think that it’s, it’s a start, is what I think. Yeah. Is it’s a start.

Garrett:
Yeah. That’s a good way to put it. Going back to your work that you do with NCOSI and the other, you know, speaking engagements and all those things that you’re doing. What has it been like for you to work with other survivors? Can you speak to that a little bit more and how that’s been rewarding?

Teresa:
Yeah, it is rewarding, because you see progress, you see hope, established where there may have not been any prior, and sometimes you don’t really see a whole lot, in what you could, well, what I pray for is, you know, the whole notion of planting of seeds. We don’t always get to see the outcomes of our work. Um, and we can always just carry on and pray that those seeds are, planted well and, and developed at some point in time. So there’s a, it’s a mixed bag working with survivors. Hmm. You know, there are so many instances and situations that you hear about that are just devastating.

Garrett:
Well, I mentioned at the beginning of this interview slash conversation that we fight the new drug. We’re grateful for what NCOSE is doing. We’re grateful for what you’re doing. Hopefully, this podcast and what you’ve said today helps our listeners and viewers better to understand what is sex trafficking? How we can fight sex trafficking. What is grooming? How can we prevent and stop grooming?
What else can we do to support you and to support NCOSE?

Teresa:
Well, again, you know, educating ourselves, educating children, speaking out against pornography is huge. I would love to see men and dads teaching their young boys, the harms of pornography, how to view their peers. I would love to see a, just a mass movement of that. And I’m sure it’s happening in homes. You know, these kids that are being inundated these days bombarded with pornography and explicit images and having to have the concern and worry about who they’re talking to. I mean, they’re just being bombarded with pressures that no kid should have to, really endure. You know, we, I mean, we are living in a time that we’ve nev we’ve never experienced this as a society in the way that we are now. Yep. So, helping NCOSE would be to be very proactive in your own community and your own home, and then speaking out against exploitation and abuse and pornography, and any means possible for me as a survivor and working with NCOSE, which I think is one of the best organizations ever, and the, the people are just really tremendously and genuinely incredible there, is to really be committed to take a stand against everything that we’re taking a stand against, you know, to, to really join us in the fight, and to protect human dignity.

I mean, that’s what we’re doing. These are all, these are basic, fundamental human rights to live in a, a world free of exploitation and abuse. Right. You know? Yeah.

Garrett:
Well, Theresa, we wanna leave you with the opportunity to have the last word during this conversation. If there’s anything that you want to state, anything that’s on your heart or mind that you haven’t stated or that you wanna reemphasize, we would love to hear your closing remarks or closing thoughts.

Teresa:
My, you know, my closing thoughts. I think, again, just really focus and go back to being a parent and being a mom, and raising my two wonderful children in this world. And the steps that I take as a mom and as a parent to educate them and to prepare them and to, you know, teach them, give them tools of what to do, if any type of situation were to happen. Yeah. Um, you know, we really, I mean, that, that’s the message, the signs of what, to look for, the tools, help them identify a trusted adult if it’s not you. Yeah. You know, give them tools of what to do so they know how to handle themselves. At least help them, you know, equip them with that first step so that they might not necessarily know what to do after step one. But if they can get themselves to step one, then hopefully, you know, it can be stopped right there, and, and nothing can continue. So I think my biggest message is, you know, to really be highly involved and, you know, protect your kids.

Garrett:
Yeah. Yeah.
Well, Teresa, I’ve said it already, but I will say it again. Thank you for being with us today.

Teresa:
You’re welcome. It’s a pleasure to be here.