Intro (00:00):
In today’s episode, we’re joined by Rosalia Rivera, consent educator, body safety expert and founder of Consent Parenting. Rosalia opens up about her personal journey and mission to empower parents with the tools they need to prevent child sex abuse, teach healthy boundaries, and navigate conversations about [00:00:30] consent into digital age. With that, let’s jump into the conversation. Let hope you’ll enjoy this episode of Consider Before Consuming.

Fight The New Drug (00:44):
Okay. Rosalia, thank you so much for joining us on Consider Before Consuming today. we’re excited to just dive right in. We think our listeners will really learn a lot from what you have to share with us today. So can you start by just sharing a bit about yourself [00:01:00] and what led you to become an advocate for consent, parenting and abuse prevention?

Rosalia (01:05):
Yeah, a little bit about me. I am a consent educator and a body safety educator. I really focus on child sexual abuse prevention and working predominantly with parents and now more and more with schools as well to educate them on the issue of abuse prevention, the rates of child sexual abuse and how to, you know, be able [00:01:30] to do something about it to take action. So beyond just educating their own children, which is, of course, super important learning how to talk to other adults about this topic that unfortunately still has a lot of stigma around it. But I think through conversations like this and conversations in general where parents feel confident to have these conversations, we can change the statistics. And so that’s really my goal with the work that I do. I’m a mom of three boys, and I, I see that [00:02:00] as a really incredible privilege to raise them in a way that breaks the cycles and, and doesn’t create perpetrators into the world, like really being conscious about that.

(02:10):
So that’s they, they’re the reason I started doing this work and the reason that I’m continuing, you know, every day on this mission, I can share that for me when I was growing up, because I grew up in such a sex negative home where we didn’t talk about sex, you couldn’t even ask about it. Like, my mom [00:02:30] couldn’t even use the correct anatomical words for body parts. This was in the nineties, you know, again, like I’m hearing like, you know, music from Little Kim and all these, you know artists who were really talking about provocative things on the radio, you know, and again, access is so much easier today. So when you’re hearing songs from like Billie Eilish, you know, oxytocin, which is really about BDSM and then a kid’s curious, like, what does mean, and then [00:03:00] they’re seeking it out.

(03:01):
Like, I had those similar experiences where I didn’t really understand what they were saying, but I knew it had to do with sex. And so what I would seek out was like, you know, HBO like had late night, you know, shows about sex or real sex stories and trying to get access to sexual health information in the late teens. And unfortunately, because I was trying to find things, [00:03:30] and I had friends who were like, oh, you should check this out, or, you know, once I became an adult and I was, you know, 18, 19, I mean, and I don’t even looking back on that, it’s like you’re not an adult at that point. You’re like, you know, starting your infancy of adulthood. But I just remember thinking, okay, well, I, I can seek out stuff now on my own. And it was sort of the, the portal into pornography.

(03:54):
And in the, in the beginning it was just like, oh, this is what that looks like and this is how it happens. And I found myself [00:04:00] trying to like mimic the, you know, the way that women looked or the way that they behaved in those films. what, what ultimately was most disturbing for me was when I started noticing the aggressiveness with which, like, men were treating women. And because I didn’t, you know, no one had taught me about consent. I just assumed like, certain things meant that you’re agreeing to this, and like, if you’re in the middle of that, then you just gotta like, you know, go through with it. And it really warped [00:04:30] my sense of autonomy and consent. And look, I didn’t understand any of it, and unfortunately, I was in a lot of situations where I was taken advantage of because I was mimicking what I saw.

(04:40):
so once I recognized that I, I no longer wanted to consume it, I realized that while I was in the moments of intimacy with someone, I was thinking about what I had seen instead of being present in the moment. It really disrupted what I had, like, my sense of understanding [00:05:00] of what real intimacy is what, what pleasure is like, I, I, it just seemed very one sided. And anyway, it just kind of reinforced a lot of negative things that I had already watched in the media and just assumed, oh, this is how that goes. and it wasn’t until really I met with my husband, who we’ve been together 19 years now, really helped me understand healthy sex and healthy relationships. and [00:05:30] so I put, you know, pornography down for many, many years, and I, when I started hearing about like, oh, you know, kids are starting to access it, in my mind it was like what was happening in the nineties and early two thousands.

(05:43):
Right. And which was bad enough as it was. And just as a research, you know, I put my research hat on and I was like, what are kids seeing today? And I was so horrified because it has escalated to a whole other level. I mean, what I [00:06:00] remember seeing this one site where it was these college girls that were hazing, I guess it was like a sorority, and they were hazing each other and forcing the girls in the sorority to do these horrendous things. And it was like, I don’t even remember what the site was on, like some porn site, but I just remember like shutting it off immediately and like needing to calm my nervous system down, because what I was witnessing was sexual violation on a, like [00:06:30] a large scale and feeling so horribly sad for these girls, you know?

(06:35):
And just, that was a wake up moment of like, oh my God, this is what kids are consuming today. And if they’re doing the same thing that I did, because they come from a home where nobody talked about this, and that’s what they’re finding as education. I mean, we’re, we’re not going in the right direction if we’re not doing something about that. So this, you know, that really reinforced for me. Like, I need to talk to my kids and I need to make sure that they don’t [00:07:00] access this stuff. ’cause it’s, it’s really, it’s poison.

Fight The New Drug (07:05):
Yeah. Thank you so much for sharing that and for, for letting your personal experience be. What has motivated you to pursue this path in, in working with parents and creating and building resources to ensure that we’re kind of sounding the alarm on this? You know, once again, we don’t live in the world that existed in the nineties, and as you pointed out, it was bad enough as it was. So [00:07:30] I think it’s really important that we’re having these conversations to address these issues in this way, but also certainly with our children, to be sure that we can combat this because it is horrific the type of content that young people are exposed to today. Well, we’re so grateful for your work. we have a lot of parents who engage with our resource and listen resources and listen to the podcast. and can you share why it’s so crucial for parents to teach their children about consent from an early [00:08:00] age? You know, many parents are often hesitant or they think it’s too young, or they’re hesitant to introduce something their kids weren’t already thinking about. So can you share why it’s so crucial for parents to be the ones engaging in this way?

Rosalia (08:12):
Yeah, I mean, nobody else is, is talking about these topics. and if they do, sometimes it’s the wrong messaging or it’s an unsafe messaging, right? So if we as parents aren’t the ones driving these conversations, then we’re really handing that power over [00:08:30] to others. but we can start early with these conversations in an empowering way where it’s not a scary conversation. It’s not any, you know, it’s not about fear-mongering to our kids, but the beauty of this is that we help teach kids about their rights, their innate rights which most kids don’t, you know, they’re not raised with that information. I mean, I didn’t know that until I became really an adult. I didn’t understand what autonomy was, or that it unlocks at different stages in, in ages. so that in [00:09:00] and of itself is such critical information to understand autonomy.

(09:03):
You can’t teach about con consent without that foundation. So we can get started with that really early by just teaching kids about the right bodies and then about boundaries and how to set boundaries, how to respect the boundaries of others, right? It’s a two way, two way street. And then, of course, consent, which is really just another way of saying permission. Helping kids understand this concept in a really age appropriate way, and to let them know, you know, [00:09:30] it again, two way street. So really, it’s not just about helping them learn to protect themselves, which ultimately is not even their responsibility. but the reason that we wanna start with these foundations is that they are a strong springboard to then learn about body safety. And then it doesn’t become a weird conversation because kids are like, oh, I have these rights. I understand my boundaries, and that I should ask for permission or that others should ask for permission.

(09:56):
And so it just sets you up for success to be [00:10:00] able to teach body safety in an empowering way. So I think we can start with kids as early, you know, as soon as they’re born, just in the way that we communicate with them, and then of course, how we help others, other adults and caregivers communicate with them. So it’s, it’s really a, a powerful conversation, especially even for survivors who didn’t grow up with that or whose own rights were violated. To be able to, to break that cycle and, and change the narrative, I think is super powerful and, and important as part of healing and, and breaking those cycles.

Fight The New Drug (10:30):
[00:10:30] Yeah. Can you share you mentioned we can help other adults learn how to communicate with children. Can you give an example of that? I think that might be something a lot of people are unfamiliar with the idea of,

Rosalia (10:43):
For sure. Well, I, I think, you know, family members come to mind first. because we, we, you know, usually share our children in a way with them, right? Like, whether it’s grandparents or uncles even cousins, right? So being able to have these open conversations [00:11:00] with them to say, you know, we are learning about body safety. These are the practices that we’re doing. These are our family safety rules. We would love for you to learn about it, to be part of our safety team. So it’s not a conversation that has to at ev at any point, unless, you know, you see some red flags. It doesn’t have to be adversarial, it doesn’t have to be confrontational. It, it actually can be a beautiful invitation to teach others just as the way that we’re learning about it ourselves. We can educate others. So just by [00:11:30] say, you know, being honest and saying, you know, I’m, I’m just starting to learn about this, and I didn’t learn about it when I was a kid.

(11:35):
And especially if you’re talking to a grandparent and, and they might get defensive, right? And be like, well, you know, you, you are okay. You were, you know, and, and the thing is, even if you didn’t experience sexual violence yourself, now that you know the facts, why would you let that risk stay as is instead of reducing it? So just educating them and saying you didn’t have that information when you were raising me. I get it. I have [00:12:00] that information now, thank goodness, and I have all these tools, and I would love to share that with you. And like, inviting them in, calling them in can be really powerful so that they then know what are the boundaries? What are the tools that I can use? What are the, the parameters, you know, that my kids are setting up for my grandkids, and how can I participate?

(12:20):
some you might come across, you know, some pushback in some, you know, situations. And, and that’s kind of to be expected, because again, it’s an older [00:12:30] generation. but staying firm to your, you know, family rules and knowing that your, the, your child’s safety is the priority. And sometimes adults’ feelings will, you know, get hurt and they might have to get over it. And, and there might be a situation where, you know, there’s people that get cut out for a while because they need some time to reflect on that. So it’s a challenging situation in that sense, if you come across that resistance, but know that you’re doing the right thing by standing [00:13:00] up for your child and being that, that really powerful upstander.

Fight The New Drug (13:04):
Yeah, I think that’s really incredible encouragement. let’s talk about grooming a little bit. Grooming is a term that many parents may have heard but might not fully understand. can you explain what grooming is and what it can look like?

Rosalia (13:17):
Yeah. Grooming, I think, is something most people are still unaware of. they think because of, you know, this narrative of like stranger danger and thinking that, you know, assault just happens, [00:13:30] you know, out of nowhere. But the, the fact is that offenders work to gain the trust of not just the child, but the parents first. Those caregivers, right? They’re the first line of defense. So if they can get past that, then they can access the child. And so essentially what grooming is, are strategies that offenders use to gain that trust and that access and the opportunity to abuse a child. So first, grooming starts as a strategy to gain the, you know, trust of the parent or the caregiver. [00:14:00] And then once they have access to the child, then they start grooming the child. And so there’s different strategies and tactics that they will use to do that so that their defenses go down, their boundaries go down, and then they can move into that stage of actual abuse.

(14:14):
And then the secrecy and, and the grooming is really set up so that the, the secrecy part holds and the child feels implicated or they feel, you know, I can’t tell anyone ’cause look at all these things that happened beforehand. So it’s a, it’s, it’s kind of like setting [00:14:30] a trap and being able to you know, ensnare your victim. So grooming is something that I think all parents really need to learn about. They need to know what the signs are how to, how to spot them, how to call out, how to intervene so that they can, you know, potentially interfere that process of abuse. and so some, you know, some signs that I think are, are some general ones. ’cause there’s lots, but some general ones are you know, trying to [00:15:00] offer themselves as helpful. particularly again with parents, if, if they’re single parents you know, how can they assist financially or care, you know, offering childcare gift giving lavishing the child with attention or the parents with attention and support.

(15:18):
there’s also, of course then finding ways to get a child to keep a secret. this can include things like sexual exposure [00:15:30] to either themselves in person or showing them, you know explicit content. a lot of times initially in the beginning, it’s more about like how can I make it look accidental so that, you know, in case the child says something, you know, then it’s, oh, I’m so sorry. That was totally an accident, you know? so there’s a, sadly there’s a lot of thought that goes into grooming. we know that there’s predatory communities online that share tips with each [00:16:00] other on how to groom children or parents effectively. so it’s really important that parents become aware of what the signs are. And there’s some others, I won’t, I won’t go deep into it, but you know, there’s lots of resources, you know, today available to, to help parents learn about grooming. So highly encouraged that parents get educated on that.

Fight The New Drug (16:19):
Yeah. Thank you. You mentioned explicit material and predatory communities online. can you speak about how pornography contributes to grooming both in terms of how predators use it and how [00:16:30] it influences a child’s perception of relationships and consent?

Rosalia (16:35):
Yeah, I mean, there, there’s so many connections, and this isn’t something that I think people think, oh, you know, with the digital age, but Pornography’s been used for decades, even before we had the internet. you know, if it was a magazine or if it was like a videotape, you know, cassette or something th this was a strategy that was used to introduce a child to the concepts of sexuality and sex. [00:17:00] And and, and depending on the child’s age, you know, and they’re approached differently. So if a child is young and they’re playing something like Roblox inviting them to, you know like, I think they’re called condos or something, right? Like, I can’t remember the name of it, but just finding ways that will entice or allure a young child or a teen or, you know, tween or teen. so if someone’s, you know, grooming them online, they might send them a link or they might, you know, send [00:17:30] them explicit videos or images just as, as a way to open up a conversation about sex and sexuality.

(17:38):
sometimes they will, you know, say, oh, you’re so mature that I, you know, I think that you, you know, your parents don’t want you to see this, and, but you know, you’re old enough. And so, unfortunately, if parents aren’t having those conversations ahead, the child may not recognize that this is a red flag. they are being you know what’s the word I’m looking for? [00:18:00] essentially being tricked right into thinking, oh, you know, my parents don’t want me to see this for some reason, but this person’s telling me I’m mature enough and, you know, my parents don’t know me. And a lot of times offenders will use that strategy to entice the child to consume more explicit content or to create it, which is of course even worse.

Fight The New Drug (18:23):
And how can parents teach their children to recognize that a manipulative or predatory behavior without instilling [00:18:30] fear?

Rosalia (18:31):
Yeah, I think a lot of this, there’s, there’s two parts to the answer. I think. One is our parenting. I think conscious parenting is really key here. And I say conscious, not gentle parenting. ’cause there is a difference. I think conscious parenting is really about learning to build a, a honest, open and connected communication space where your highest value is honesty with your child. and, and creating that [00:19:00] safety, right? That sense of safety. And I think when we create those spaces for children to feel that there’s a shame-free space to ask questions to, you know, I heard such and such thing at the playground, and your parents are not gonna get mad because you’re asking the question, then you are creating a safe space for them to come to you. also at this point, I think when kids are really young, we wanna help them develop their sense of intuition, their understanding of those body signals.

(19:28):
You know, if something is making [00:19:30] you feel strange and you can’t really understand what that feeling is, then, you know, come to me and we can work it out together. We can figure out what’s going on. But it’s so important that you listen to your body and those signals that are telling you something’s not right or something feels odd. You know, I think being honest about these things, and especially for our children are, you know, going through that stage in puberty that those teen and tween years that are so important when kids’ hormones are changing and they’re, you know, sort of awakening to other aspects [00:20:00] of relationships and things like that. These are really critical times to have those open conversations. So setting up early by talking about, you know, using tools. one of the, my favorite books on teaching kids about red flag behavior is a book by Kimberly King called, I Said, no.

(20:15):
And it talks about, you know, red flags, what are they? And, and it’s in an age appropriate way that’s not meant to be scary. It’s, it’s meant to help kids, you know, recognize something that’s not safe, and then be able to tell and feel safe telling, right? There’s, there’s [00:20:30] a lot of fear of like, what if I made a mistake and I didn’t recognize the red flag sign and I made, you know, made that mistake. Is it okay to tell my parent? If you’ve set that up, then you have a higher chance of that child coming to you and being able to disrupt the escalation of whatever that situation was. So I think conscious parenting, teaching kids, honestly, about red flags in an age appropriate way against so many great tools. And then just having those ongoing, [00:21:00] not leaving them to the last minute, not being reactive, but being proactive.

(21:05):
And I’ll tell you myself, you know, I have kids nine to 13, we are having these conversations regularly. There’s kids who are saying things on the playground, and they come home and they’re like, what is that? What is this kid talking about? What does that mean? and then being able to have that difficult conversation in an age appropriate shame-free way. we wanna steer kids towards healthy behaviors, right? [00:21:30] And the only way we can do that is really through communication that is, is safe for them. So really working on building that throughout all of their childhood years and not saying, okay, I think I’ve had an, you know, I think I covered it even when your child is like, okay, mom, like, I get it. And then our job at that point is to say, okay, what’s a different angle that I can approach this with? So like, we can continue these conversations. How can I make it relevant to my child at their new age and stage so that we can keep having these really important conversations? So there’s, there’s lots [00:22:00] of different ways. Those are just some off the top of my head that I think are the most powerful. But again, so many resources out there today to, to help parents have these really critical conversations I think they’re more important than ever.

Fight The New Drug (22:14):
That’s such a beautiful way to say that. I think so many parents are afraid of, you know, exposing their children to the, the dark, the darkest things in the world, right? The potential that’s out there. But it is so much scarier often for kids to experience [00:22:30] something and not have safe adults to go to or to feel shame about it, or to feel like it was their fault, and to not know that they have a safe adult to go to. So I think that’s such a, a good perspective to take with this.

Rosalia (22:42):
Do you mind if I share a quick story actually?

Fight The New Drug (22:44):
Please do. Please do.

Rosalia (22:46):
this actually happened during the pandemic, and my oldest was nine at the time. we had been given a device from the school it was an iPad that I assumed, and I made the erroneous assumption that it [00:23:00] had, you know, the filters in place and it was set up so that, you know, there wasn’t any danger. All of our computers at home you know, were safeguarded. So I assumed the same of the school. And again, this was during Covid, so I think a lot of the schools were overwhelmed, but they were handing out devices like it was candy, right? And my child had been watching some cartoon where there was like a girl that turned into, I think a cat or something. It was like a cartoon about that. And so he just curious, [00:23:30] went online and searched like, girl turns into cat or something.

(23:36):
And these thumbnails came up that were essentially misleading and my child clicked on it, didn’t realize that it was leading to a porn site, which had popups. and fortunately we had had those discussions previously about like, what to do, because I knew statistically nine was the average age of exposure. So we [00:24:00] were, I was really reluctant because I was one of those parents who was like nine, like, my kid’s not gonna like search stuff at that age. Like, you know, he’s not gonna go look up sex or porn or anything. So I did it anyway because that’s my job, and I was like, I’m gonna have this conversation. And it was, it wasn’t as uncomfortable as I thought because we had some tools. I had, you know, the good pictures, bad pictures, books. So that was really helpful. We talked about exit strategies if that ever [00:24:30] came up.

(24:30):
And, and then, you know, like literally a month later this happened and my child was like shocked when it happened. didn’t initially tell me right away because he was like kind of dumbfounded with what he thought, what he saw. He, it didn’t make sense. and then, you know, about three or four days later, he finally told me and said, you know, mom, I, this happened. I remembered what you said to do, and I turned it off. But like, and I was, I, I thought [00:25:00] I made a mistake and you were gonna get mad. So I didn’t wanna tell you right away, but I really didn’t understand what I saw, and it’s really been bothering me. And like, we were able to have a conversation about what ha you know, what it was and what happened. And of course, you know, changed like the settings for all the, you know, things and made sure that everything was safe again.

(25:18):
I was really upset about it with the school, but this was, you know, a learning experience for me to say, wow, I’m so glad that I had that conversation. And it was just in the nick of time and it [00:25:30] was a good lesson for me in terms of schools and, you know, all the other things with my other kids. So this was really I think just for me, a good lesson to say to parents like, don’t wait. You know, don’t think not my kid, because it’s like, you know, I mean the, the messaging is out there. It’s not a matter of if, it’s just a matter of when. So I, you know, we have to have these conversations and I was so glad that my child felt safe to come tell me, and I was like, okay, I did the right thing. I, you know, I, I created enough of [00:26:00] a safe space and a shame, shame-free space that my child was able to come to me and we were able to have that conversation.

Fight The New Drug (26:06):
Yeah. Thank you for sharing that. I think that’s such a beautiful example of you know, we do live in the world we live in, and kids are going to be exposed. It’s not if it’s when, and even if your child is not seeking it out directly, they may not even know what it is, but they may still stumble upon it. and that’s true for so many kids even younger than nine, unfortunately, we hear, you know, when I was six, when I was seven [00:26:30] all of the time. And so it’s not, if it’s when, and, and you, you know, you wanna be the person your kids will come to about this and not Google. ’cause they will have questions. So I think that’s such a good example of, of when this works the right way. thank you for sharing that. that’s a good segue actually into my next question. Largely due to increased porn exposure among younger and younger kids, we are seeing a rise of child on child sexual assault sexual abuse. [00:27:00] How do conversations about consent differ when you’re teaching kids about interactions with adults versus interactions with other children?

Rosalia (27:09):
To me, I think it does, it doesn’t really change in terms of how to teach it. It’s just a matter of including the fact that you can say, you know, it’s not just, you know, something that has to do with adults, it’s anybody. It can be your sibling, it can be your cousin, it can be your friend at school. And we know also [00:27:30] that peer pressure is a real thing, and especially as kids get older. So also having those conversations about, you know if somebody is asking you to do this and saying that’s what’s required to be your friend, then that’s not a real friend, right? So having those kinds of conversations around, you know self value and what healthy friendships look like and understanding, you know, that someone would never ask you to break a body safety rule if they are truly a safe friend. [00:28:00] so, you know, just including that as part of the conversation. And then again, depending on the age of your child, those conversations around peer pressure I think are really key as well.

Intro (28:12):
Fight the new drug has been advocating for love for over 16 years. Our resources have helped millions of students, parents, families, couples, individuals and communities worldwide. But our resources have been stretched thin, and we need help bridging a critical funding gap. If you’ve experienced the impact of this movement [00:28:30] in your own life or someone else’s, now’s the time to help by making a donation today. Every donation, no matter the amount, makes a significant difference. We exist today because of your belief in this movement, your trust in our mission and your financial support. Together we can help this movement going and help reduce sexual exploitation. To donate the fight, the new drug today, visit ftd.org/donate. That’s ftd.org/donate.

Fight The New Drug (29:00):
[00:29:00] As kids are getting a little bit older, it’s natural for them to have questions about sex. Right. and in your experience, how can parents effectively counteract the unrealistic and often harmful messages about sex and relationships that kids might absorb from pornography?

Rosalia (29:17):
Yeah, I mean, I think it’s even beyond just pornography, it’s like in all media, right? I think media has just become so much more sexualized at younger and younger ages. And, and I mean, I remember like [00:29:30] growing up in the nineties, I was exposed to things like Little Kim and, you know, Foxy Brown and like all the, there, you know, nine inch nails had music that was out. Like, it’s not that it has changed that dramatically, but the access to it has, and that’s what I think a parent, a lot of parents are, are not seeing clearly, is that the access is so much more available. So I think just, you know, I, I’m a truth teller, so with my kids, I’ve always tried to be as honest as I could [00:30:00] and which was really challenging, you know, to be honest, because I grew up in a really strict household where sex was never talked about.

(30:08):
If anything, it was a very sex negative home. so I never felt safe asking questions. so I think it, you know, starting with body literacy from a young age really helps set up these conversations. And again, if, if you’re feeling really challenged by that, if it’s like it’s creating a pit in your stomach, you know, and not because you’re like, I, [00:30:30] I can’t do this, it, it’s so uncomfortable practice, you know, practice with a friend, get some tools, get, there’s so many resources available today to have these conversations in an age appropriate way so that you don’t have to do all that heavy lifting. And especially if you never had the language because it wasn’t taught to you, it doesn’t come natively. So use those tools, practice, get some support, you know, maybe that’s a friend, maybe it’s a partner or a spouse, whoever it is, you know, do this as a [00:31:00] team if you can.

(31:01):
just so that you have some language around that. And then, you know, if you’re child, if you’re feeling like kind of late to the game, like, how do we do this? Again, there’s lots of resources for that too. And then just find opportunities where you are kind of like doing other things. And this can be kind of a side conversation so it doesn’t feel like you’re confronting your child with this topic and take it slow. Like, don’t feel like you have to rush through it. So take the time, do the work, get the support, get the tools, [00:31:30] and start having these conversations. Like, just muster up the courage to do it if it feels uncomfortable. Because the truth is that if you, again, if you are not the one having these conversations, the internet will, the internet will have these conversations with your child and they will misguide them.

(31:46):
And unfortunately, you know, we see the, the, the way, you know, the, the adolescents just showed like, it’s so easy for boys in particular to fall, you know, into these communities where they’re finding answers [00:32:00] in the wrong places, right? And that’s not what we want. So be proactive. Don’t wait until something comes up and then you’re scrambling to go, how do I, you know, deal with this and how do I fix it? the more we can, we can get ahead of the conversation the more comfortable your child’s gonna be hearing about it too, it won’t feel awkward and it takes the shame out of it because you are being proactive to talk about it. And the way that you, you know, your tone normalizes the conversation is [00:32:30] really their template for how to have those conversations with you. So if you are coming at this like stressed out and, you know, unsure and nervous, that’s what they’re gonna pick up on and that’s how they’re gonna respond. So, you know, this is why I say it’s so important to get support to have these. So whether that’s an online community of other parents or your spouse or your, you know, family member, whoever it is, you know, talk to them and say like, I, I need a game plan. I, I’m not sure what to do. I need some [00:33:00] help. Like, can I practice with you what I’m gonna say? You know, just take action.

Fight The New Drug (33:06):
You said a couple of key things. I really wanna be sure our listeners caught onto one, we often hear from adults who are doing this work, working with parents in this space that as adults, we are often way more uncomfortable talking about this topic with young people than they are right, because of, as you mentioned, maybe we have, we didn’t grow up with the [00:33:30] same kind of openness around these topics, or it would’ve been uncomfortable for us to have this conversation with our parents because they never opened the door for us. So I think it’s important to note that they are are way less likely to be as uncomfortable with this as we think they might be. we often hear from young people when we present in schools, you know, I wish my parents would’ve talked to me about this. I wish I would’ve been able to ask them questions about this because I have questions.

(33:55):
So I think that’s so key. And then I love that you mentioned I think [00:34:00] often parents or adults, we think about like the sex talk that we kind of grew up with that’s kind of the big, the one time event and it’s really not that, that we wanna create, right? It’s an ongoing discussion. So I loved the point of you know, when you’re doing the dishes or doing something else, that this is just kind of part of the conversation. I think that will help make it more comfortable for you and for them, right? To just know this is kind of an ongoing part of what we’re doing. So I think that’s great advice and practicing is, is great [00:34:30] advice as well.

Rosalia (34:31):
Last thing too to that is I think, you know, to your point about parents who are a lot more uncomfortable than kids again, this also depends on age, and I just wanna reiterate for parents who have teenagers who are like, oh, my kid doesn’t wanna hear about it, actually they do. It’s just maybe the approach that you have. And so maybe shifting that approach, right? So looking at what are some other ways that I can approach this conversation if this one way hasn’t worked? And I, I think a lot of parents tend to give up and they’re like, oh, [00:35:00] it’s too late. And I, you know, I I I I’m not reaching them anymore. there’s so many different ways. I mean, you can find an article that might be relevant to them that you can both discuss and say, you know, I read this today and I was really shocked at like, the statistics of teens.

(35:14):
Like, have you heard about this? What’s your experience in school? What are your friends saying? you know, or you can say, you know, I, I picked up this book for you to check out, you know, obviously if it’s an age appropriate book, and I, I just want you to have it as a resource, and if there’s anything in there that you have questions about, like, [00:35:30] just let me know. I’m here for it. I know that we’ve had these discussions before, like owning those mistakes too, I think is really powerful for teenagers. And just to say, I don’t want you to ever feel like you don’t have someone to ask. I didn’t have that, you know? And I think a lot of times when we share our honest experiences from our own childhoods and our own teenage years, that can be really powerful to, you know, kind of build a bridge of connection with our kids.

(35:55):
So don’t be afraid to say, you know, I messed up, or I made a mistake, or I should have, you [00:36:00] know, talked to you about this earlier, but I, I just wanna make sure, you know, that there, like the door is always open. I’m, you know, there’s no no question that I’m gonna shame you about. Like, the door is open, you know, so don’t ever feel like, just ’cause your child is older and you didn’t have this, that it’s too late and they don’t wanna hear about it. Especially if they’re like, mom, this is embarrassing, or I don’t wanna talk about this. It’s like, okay, no problem. I totally get it. I was like that, you know, but I wish that, you know, my parents had pushed a little, so I just [00:36:30] wanna, you know, let you know the door’s open, right? So there’s lots of different ways that we can approach that, and it’s, it’s important to not give up.

Fight The New Drug (36:37):
Yeah, I think that’s great. And often some parents think, you know, no one talked to me about this and I turned out fine. And I think it’s important to note that the world we’re living in is not the same world as when this generation of parents and adults was kids, right? And, and that is because of things like you mentioned earlier the access to this type of content with social media, with [00:37:00] the internet. can you talk about some of the dangers that exist on mainstream social media platforms that parents and young people might not be aware of?

Rosalia (37:09):
Yeah, absolutely. I, you know, when I first started learning about this myself I didn’t, I really thought, you know, how are kids like getting direct access to porn sites through Instagram, like to have these policies and they’re supposed to have, you know, safeguards around like explicit content. But, you know, we see this [00:37:30] through accounts where OnlyFans, you know, creators are putting out, you know, images on their Instagram that just seem kind of sexy. Maybe they’re in a bathing suit or they’re, you know, it’s just a little bit scantily glad, like if you’re a curious teenage boy or teenage girl that’s following, you know, some quote unquote model that they think, you know, oh, they’re talking about modeling, or they’re talking about this and that, and then you click on the link in their bio and it’s straight to their OnlyFans page or to whatever other website, you know, they’ve got their [00:38:00] more explicit content on, like, there you go, that’s all you needed.

(38:04):
Because there’s no, you know, filter, there’s no age restriction, sadly, it’s that easy, right? And then we of course also see lots of these platforms allowing, you know, really explicit content. Like, all you need to do is put a sticker over something, and it’s not like nobody knows what’s behind that sticker. So, you know, it’s just, it, it’s shocking to me how easy it is. And this is [00:38:30] one of the reasons why I’m so against you know, young kids. I personally think social media shouldn’t be allowed for any child under 16 personally. I know a lot of parents are like, oh, that’s ridiculous. That’s, you know, like, what, my kid’s gonna eventually have to be on it, and then when they’re on it, they’re not gonna know what to do. And to me, it’s, it’s about education and making sure that children are being given online safety education before they get on.

(38:56):
It’s like saying, oh, I’m gonna let you drive a car, and, you know, [00:39:00] you don’t have to worry too much about the rules. Like, you’ve watched me drive, right? Like, you should be fine . So we, we don’t do that with anything else. We shouldn’t be doing it with something that essentially allows them to access so much dangerous content. And again, not even just explicit, but like anything having to do with mental health, eating disorders, right? self harm, you know, we we’re seeing right now Facebook meta, I should say being really, you know, being made to [00:39:30] have some accountability, if not, you know, to change what they’re doing. because like it’s just out of control at this point. And I, I am, I’m shocked that not every parent is like absolutely no social media , you know, is like, until you’re at least 16 and you’ve done some education on not just online safety, but also media literacy.

Fight The New Drug (39:54):
I was a teenager when the internet was new-ish, but you couldn’t access it on every device, and it was already difficult [00:40:00] enough to be a teenager at that time. And so to be exposed to everything in the world before you really have the tools to know how to, to navigate and manage it would be impossible. It would be like driving a car without, you know, learning how to drive a car, right? so I think it’s good to, to remind parents to be extra cautious, even if they use social media, likely their algorithm doesn’t look like the one that they’re their children or youth would be experiencing. So it’s important to know what’s out there. what are some steps parents can take to create [00:40:30] a safer digital experience for their children across the board?

Rosalia (40:34):
Yeah, I mean, first of all, I think, and, and I will say I, I’m guilty of allowing my kids when they were really young to use iPads. I thought a lot of the iPads, you know, this was again before I even started doing this work, that there were safe, there were safe apps on there. And you know, as I have learned throughout the years, both through learning from other educators as well as my own experiences [00:41:00] if we’re not actively teaching kids about how to use technology safely, then again, we’re setting them up for danger and failure right in, in multiple ways. So I think it’s just important to, as with body safety, start having these conversations early. there’s so many great educators today you know, that are offering these kinds of educational tools and classes and support systems. So dive into that [00:41:30] and start early, because even if your child isn’t on social media until they’re 16, these conversations matter with media in general.

(41:38):
So media literacy is also a key component of online safety. It’s not just about like strangers online or, you know, even that languages data. I think if we’re just trying to like, figure it out on our own, we, you know, technology and language and the way that kids relate to it is shifting and moving so quickly that, you know, it can feel overwhelming to [00:42:00] try to stay on top of it. And this is why I recommend, you know, seeking out experts who are teaching this to give you that guidance so you don’t have to do all that legwork on your own. ’cause it can be overwhelming with the amount of tech that, you know, is kind of thrown at us and at kids every day. So media literacy is really critical. And, and it’s as simple as watching something with your child and calling out something that you see as inappropriate.

(42:24):
So I’ll give you a really quick example of this. I was watching a, I can’t remember the name of the movie now, I think it was like [00:42:30] it, it was basically about these dogs that were spies. This was like a real reenactment you know, real like humans and, and, and dogs, but obviously the technology to, to make them speak. So there’s this, this dog that is gonna be a spy. He’s like previously part of a police force, so he’s brought into this like spy lab or something to, you know, it was kind of like a James Bond thing, right? And so they’re mimicking this, and the, this one dog is kind of giving him the tour of this spy [00:43:00] lab, and they’re talking, and all of a sudden, like the music changes, and you see these two dogs that look very like fancy and luxurious, and they’re like, all of a sudden the music slows down and it gets really fancy, and the dogs walk by.

(43:16):
And this German shepherd who’s like the main character, he says sorry to see you leave, but love to watch you go, or something like that. Like, it was basically like a cat calling, you know, moment. And [00:43:30] I was just shocked. I was like, I can’t believe that that was put in this movie. I was watching it with my kids thinking it was okay. And I, you know, after the movie ended, I, I brought that moment up and I said, do you remember when this happened? I said, girls don’t like that. And it’s actually not okay. It’s, it’s actually really not cool. Like, if somebody said that to me as I was walking past ’em, I’d be really annoyed and it would actually make me feel unsafe. And that’s not okay. And like, that’s media literacy. That’s calling out something and [00:44:00] saying that was not okay.

(44:02):
The people who made that film should have that. And ’cause when kids are watching it and they see that as normal and appropriate, then they’re gonna reenact that behavior, right? Kids are sponges and they’re seeing what’s on the TV and thinking that’s what’s, okay. So if we don’t call that out, you know, my kids were like five or six at the time and I could have not said anything and just been like, oh my God, that’s so, like, why did they put that in there? But I took it as an opportunity to make it a teachable moment. [00:44:30] And that is part of media literacy. kids watching YouTube and seeing ads and saying, you know, ad why did they, you know, show it? What are, what are they trying to get you to do? You know, that’s media literacy. So there’s lots of ways to teach it so that kids understand what they’re consuming, who’s making it, why are they making it, and that they can become critical thinkers instead of just unconscious consumers.

Fight The New Drug (44:58):
Yeah. And I, I love [00:45:00] that just calling out that moment of objectification that was displayed, right just briefly when it happened. It didn’t have to be a big deal, but you could acknowledge it there in the moment. And it just, again, makes it part of this ongoing conversation where you can talk about any of any of these things or related topics as they come up. thank you again for sharing these experiences you’ve had with your own children. As someone who’s worked with so many parents looking for resources in this space, do you have other kind of success stories [00:45:30] you could share with us about some moments where, you know, parents did the thing that seems difficult for parents to do and had these conversations and then, and then saw it pan out in a positive way?

Rosalia (45:43):
Yeah, I mean, I, I get dms all the time on Instagram from parents who are like, oh, my, you know, this thing happened and my child was able to come and tell me. And I, you know, we were able to have the conversation. I’m, I’m so grateful that, you know, we had the talks before. I think [00:46:00] it, it’s so common at this point. I mean, I have so many examples, but what I can say is that when there’s no regret, like no parent has ever, you know, messaged me and said, I regret telling my kid this. You know, that’s just not gonna happen. And the truth is that unfortunately, a lot of times when parents finally muster up the courage to have these conversations, their child will say, you, well actually, you know, such and such thing happened. You know, I just had a parent the other day who was like, we’re having [00:46:30] this conversation about penises and vaginas and like body safety and private part safety and all that.

(46:35):
And when I said penis, my, my child who was four, you know, going to daycare was like, oh, my friend at school like is, you know, trying to show me like, get me to show him. And so she was able to have a conversation, you know, with the teacher and thank her child, like, thank you for telling me. And like, I mean, that’s at four, right? So it’s never too late. Like, you’re, you, A lot of times we think, oh, kids don’t understand or they’re not [00:47:00] gonna get it. They get it. And the more we have these conversations, the more likely our kids are going to report. And that’s, you know, statistically they don’t feel safe to report. They have a lot of fear of what’s the repercussion going to be. And I think it’s important for parents to also remind their kids that everybody makes mistakes, right?

(47:21):
And I think one of the biggest mistakes that I see a lot of parents make is the threat of taking away the devices. And [00:47:30] so even if you say, you know, I’m not going to punish you, or, you know, you’re not gonna be in trouble if if in the past you’ve taken away the device for other trivial things, then that’s like not matching up with what you’re saying. So we have to be conscious parents about, you know, how we discipline about how we create these safe spaces. And I think that’s equally just as important as teaching body safety. Like we really have to match our words with our actions. And, and I think that’s really [00:48:00] critical. as part of how we navigate these conversations.

Fight The New Drug (48:04):
You mentioned that for some parents sharing your own experiences is, you know, kind of key. And I think for us, we see a lot of parents who maybe have struggled with their own pornography habit or are actively struggling with a pornography habit, or were sexually abused as children, but haven’t really spoken about it. And how would you recommend to parents to approach navigating any of those challenges?

Rosalia (48:30):
[00:48:30] Yeah, so I mean, when I talk about sharing your own experiences, I certainly am not advocating for anyone to share any kind of trauma or unhealed trauma especially. and it also really depends on your child’s age. Like, I don’t recommend sharing, you know, those traumatic experiences with children at an early age. ’cause they, there’s a lot of reasons for, for mental health reasons to not share that with your children right away. I think depending on what your experiences [00:49:00] were, you can always say, you know, I like, and I know kids will ask questions, but you can say something like, you know, when I grew up, I didn’t have a lot of safe experiences and I wish that somebody was there to, to help me, you know, to talk about it or to be able to share with them what happened. But I wasn’t sure, ’cause I wasn’t, you know, I didn’t know if people were gonna believe me.

(49:19):
I didn’t know if I was gonna get in trouble, you know, sharing in that way. And then if your child’s like, what kind of experiences like, are you talking about? You know, and you can say, well, when [00:49:30] you’re older we can, we can dive into those details. You don’t really need to know them right now. But what you do need to know is that a lot of kids actually, you know, have the potential for experiencing unsafe situations because of what happened to me. I’ve learned from that, and I wanna make sure that I can help you be safe. So I think that’s the extent especially with younger kids. And if you’re at a space with your child where you’ve been having those open conversations, they’re older and you’re sensing that there’s some unsafe [00:50:00] situation happening there and you feel like, you know, you, you are in a healed enough safe space where you can share it from that healed place, then you can maybe share some of that.

(50:11):
But I always recommend with parents who have lived experiences that if you haven’t done the work yourself to heal and to do that process of being able to talk about it in a way that will feel safe for your child, then hold off and do that work internally first. [00:50:30] and, and you know, for anyone who does have those previous experiences of addiction or, you know, if they, if if pornography was used in a way that groomed them or manipulated them or, or exploited them that can be really hard, you know? So I, I always recommend seeking out that support, that mental health support to do that healing first before you have those conversations.

Fight The New Drug (50:55):
And thank you so much for adding that. I do think that’s something, especially for our listeners, that [00:51:00] there’s often a hesitation because of, of not knowing how to address something that they’re still addressing themselves. And I think it’s important to note you still can address it and your child will thank you, right? So that they especially if you’ve had to experience something difficult as a survivor or someone who’s experienced a habit with porn, you know what the, the difficult pieces of that are with no resources as a kid. So if you can prevent your child from experiencing [00:51:30] that, that is the goal. And there are so many resources, as you mentioned to help, can you let our listeners know where they can access your resources and learn more from you after listening to this episode?

Rosalia (51:42):
For sure. Yeah. Thanks so much. yeah, people can find my [email protected] as well as about consent.com, which is a platform my, my podcast for survivors.

Fight The New Drug (51:55):
Amazing. Thank you so much. And if you could leave our listeners with one key takeaway [00:52:00] about consent, education, consent, parenting what would it be?

Rosalia (52:04):
I would say to not be afraid to have those conversations. They are so incredibly empowering. Like if you start from a place of trusting that this can empower both of you and heal any, you know, past issues that you’ve had, traumas that you’ve had, and that you know, that this can, you know, break cycles, if you step in with that energy of like, I’m afraid, but I’m gonna do [00:52:30] it anyway and just dive in. I think it will be incredibly rewarding both to you and your child. but also this is how we change culture. This is how we reduce the statistics. And I, I just wanna remind parents that child sexual abuse is not inevitable. It is absolutely preventable. actually education helps prevent up to 90% of abuse. So that should be you know really good news and remind [00:53:00] you that to, to help that happen, you have to, you know, participate and you have to be proactive. So, you know, dig deep for that courage. If you’re afraid to have these conversations and dive in. ’cause I promise you, you will not regret it.

Fight The New Drug (53:15):
Thank you so much, Rosalia. It’s been so nice to get to speak with you today. For any of our listeners, we encourage you to please check out the resources in the Linked in the show notes to learn more about consent, parenting, and resources you can use with your own children. [00:53:30] Or if you are an aunt or an uncle or interact with children, ways that you can help ensure we are tackling these issues together for this generation of youth. for any of our listeners, please remember to subscribe for more episodes like this, and thanks again for listening.

Promo (53:57):
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Outro (54:30):
[00:54:30] Thanks for joining us on this episode of Consider Before Consuming. Consider Before Consuming is brought to you by Fight the New Drug. Fight The New Drug is a non-religious and non-legislative organization that exists to provide individuals the opportunity to make an informed decision regarding pornography by raising awareness on its harmful effects, using only science, facts and personal accounts. Check out the episode [00:55:00] notes for resources mentioned in this episode. If you find this podcast helpful, consider subscribing and leaving a review. Consider before Consuming is made possible by listeners like you. If you’d like to support, consider before Consuming, you can make a one-time or recurring donation of any amount at ftnd.org/support. That’s F_T_N_D.O_R_G/SUPPORT. Thanks again for listening. We invite you to increase your self-awareness, look [00:55:30] both ways, check your blind spots, and consider before consuming.