Introduction (00:00:00):
This consider before consuming episode contains discussions of sexual violence. Listener discretion is advised. Today’s conversation is with Shelby. Shelby shares how early exposure to pornography affected her understanding of sex, leading to misconceptions about consent and hypersexuality in her teen years. She also opens up about a toxic relationship [00:00:30] tied to her partner’s pornography use, highlighting the emotional and physical toll it took on her. Over the past year, Shelby has started to open up about her experiences, which has led to healing and connection. With that, let’s jump into the conversation. We hope you enjoy this episode of Consider Before Consuming.

Fight The New Drug (00:00:53):
Well, Shelby, thank you so much for being here with us today. I am so happy to get an opportunity to speak with you [00:01:00] and to share your story with our listeners, who I think will find a lot of value in what you have to say. So we’ll go ahead and dive right in. Can you tell us a bit about yourself?

Shelby (00:01:10):
Yes. I’m Shelby. I’m 31. I’m from Minnesota. I love music. I play guitar and sing. I like playing music at our local brewery and some areas and bars and stuff around [00:01:30] the, the area. And I love egg hunting and hiking, being outside. I live here with my two dogs and my fiance, and we like swimming and just, yeah, being outside and enjoying all the things that Minnesota Life has to offer .

Fight The New Drug (00:01:52):
That’s so awesome. And for anyone who doesn’t know you said you like, I get hunting. Tell us what that is.

Shelby (00:01:59):
Yeah, so it’s [00:02:00] a, it’s a rock that has these lines in it from, from water from years and years and years. I don’t really know how to explain it, but they’re actually, I can show you one…

Fight The New Drug (00:02:15):
Amazing

Shelby (00:02:17):
A scene in there. They’re just, they’re all different. They’re, we totally nerd out on it if that’s okay to say. And we find ’em up by Lake Superior Duluth [00:02:30] Grand Mare area. It’s gorgeous there. If, if you haven’t been there before, it’s, it’s so beautiful. So

Fight The New Drug (00:02:38):
Awesome. Is that the area that you grew up in?

Shelby (00:02:41):
Yeah. Well, I grew up about two hours south of Lake Superior, so my family goes up there multiple times a year, and they brought me up there. My mom and dad brought me up there when I was, I think they started bringing me there when I was 10, and I just fell in love with it.

Fight The New Drug (00:02:58):
That’s so awesome. Tell us a little bit [00:03:00] about what life was like for you growing up.

Shelby (00:03:03):
Yeah. It was definitely I was very close with my mom and dad. I have two siblings that are both older. One’s eight years older, one’s 10 years older, so I’m the baby. And a lot of my memories are just, you know, me and my mom and dad because as far back as I remember, you know, my, my siblings were [00:03:30] off doing teenager things while I was still, you know, in diapers and stuff. But yeah, I was full of love and we did a lot of going up to the North Shore. My dad taught me how to play guitar when I was 10, so right away music has just been a big part of our lives. Him and my mom write a lot of their own stuff, and I just carry on their music now. And [00:04:00] yeah, it was, it was a good, a good childhood. There was some, you know my, my brother’s an addict, so there was that dynamic. He was in a car accident when I was 10, so he was 18, and that kind of began an opiate addiction which is still ongoing. So, you know, the, the dynamic of addiction in a family unit is, [00:04:30] is definitely can be full of drama, can be full of ups and downs, and that was also a pretty big part of my, my growing up too.

Fight The New Drug (00:04:40):
Yeah. And I’m sorry to hear your family has had to go through that. I know that can be so difficult. And we are here to talk about some other topics today that are also difficult and can also be difficult. And specifically, you’re on our podcast because of some of the experiences you’ve had involving pornography. Can you tell us, when [00:05:00] was your first experience with porn? What was your perception of, of what you were seeing?

Shelby (00:05:07):
So around, I, it’s, I always go back to 10 years old, but around the 10 to 12-year-old range there was a a point in time where I was very afraid or had a lot of anxiety about sleeping up in my own bedroom. So there was a short period of time where my parents [00:05:30] were kind of remodeling their bedroom, and so they were sleeping in our living room on a pullout couch. And there were a few nights in there where I slept on the loveseat next to them, and we had cable. My dad always falls asleep with the TV on, and I remember it was one night you fall asleep to something family friend friendly on HBO, and then, you know, 2:00 AM 3:00 AM rolls around and it’s not so family friendly anymore. So my parents were sleeping, and I remember [00:06:00] waking up and some scene, some pornographic scene was on the television. And I remember kind of maybe like turning away or kind of nervous or embarrassed, like I didn’t want my parents to know that I had seen that. And I didn’t really understand, you know, why, why it was on the television. And I felt, yeah, a little ashamed [00:06:30] or embarrassed or definitely the two feelings that I remember most.

Fight The New Drug (00:06:35):
Yeah. When did you start seeking out pornography and what was driving you to watch?

Shelby (00:06:45):
I would say shortly after that, you know, 12, 13, I didn’t have I didn’t have access, like I didn’t have access like they do now. I didn’t have a cell [00:07:00] phone until I was 18 or 19. And I just remember wanting to watch it because as I went into middle school at 12 or 13 years old everything was becoming really sexualized. just interactions with boys and starting to hear more and more about our figure comments [00:07:30] on us as, as growing girls ours. And, and I, I think with it being more of a topic in school, I just wanted to kind of know what sex was, and I was very interested in learning about it. And I knew that you could see sex in pornography, and I think I just, I started seeking it out just outta curiosity. I wanted to know how you do it [00:08:00] and why, and those are things that weren’t, Ty weren’t talked about in school or in in a class yet anyway at that point.

Fight The New Drug (00:08:11):
Yeah. And that curiosity about sex is so natural at that age, right? But so many young people find themselves seeking out pornography to learn because there aren’t a lot of other resources available to learn, and the adults in their lives aren’t having healthier, productive conversations with them about it. So you’re in experiences [00:08:30] actually, so common, you know, we hear about it so often. Did watching porn impact your idea of relationships as a teenager?

Shelby (00:08:39):
I think it definitely did. And back on, back to what you said too about parents that weren’t really having those conversations, because as a, as a young girl, you know, not that I wasn’t safe to bring it up, but that’s hard for a, a child to bring that up. That is, I believe, something that needs to be more on the adult [00:09:00] end of it. So I think with that little bit of shame around the curiosity definitely made it hard to ever talk to anybody about it or ask about it. But I know that I was beginning to, I was beginning to be kind of hyper sexualize everything myself, and I was boy crazy, and I wanted you know, the attention from boys. So I think [00:09:30] the way that I viewed the relationships was I was getting close to this person to have sex. Like, that was the goal always. I felt like when we would get a boyfriend in middle school or high school, the just sex was like the goal for, you know, me and the, and the boy. And it definitely made [00:10:00] me want, just, just viewing pornography made me want to have sex more because of what I was seeing. I wanted to, you know, experience that. And then once I did, it wasn’t at all, you know, at all, like what I saw in pornography. And, and yeah, that was, that was a confusing thing too.

Fight The New Drug (00:10:26):
Yeah. How was what you were seeing in porn different than what you were experiencing?

Shelby (00:10:30):
[00:10:30] So for me, it was, it was really just knowing the, the sounds that the women were making and how much pleasure they seemed to have been having wasn’t the case for me. It was kind of a you know, I was 13 when I lost my virginity, and we didn’t know exactly what we were doing. And [00:11:00] I think at that young of an age, it’s just like, we wanna have sex to say we did it, but we’re not really aware of how or what to do that feels good or how to voice it. You know, those were definitely things that came to me much later on in life, just being able to voice what, you know, what you want and what feels good. And that just, I don’t think was modeled in any of the porn that I was [00:11:30] watching as far as a woman saying, that doesn’t feel good, or I need this or that, you know, at, at a young age like that. It’s just, you’re just, I think I was just doing it to do it and then realizing that this isn’t all it’s hyped up to be.

Fight The New Drug (00:11:46):
Yeah. Which is so confusing, right? When you’re so young and you’re using pornography to be this tool to teach you about sex and then to not have an experience that at all seems like the one you expected to have is so we hear from people [00:12:00] all of the time who experienced what you’ve experienced. It’s so common. It’s so difficult also, I think, for people to reconcile that at that time. How did porn impact your perception of consent?

Shelby (00:12:12):
I think for the longest time, I didn’t really know what consent was or that consenting was even a part of sex. So in high school you know, I really, [00:12:30] I, I think after that I was just chasing that feeling of like being wanted and then like this, this, this guy wanting to have sex with me. So I think I lost sight of that. I can say no. And, and that yeah, I’m trying to, I’m trying to think here. [00:13:00] It was definitely, again, not something that was, that was modeled. So I, I was very I think I was very confused growing up in all of my sexual encounters that, that I was just doing this for the guy, you know, because he wants this, and if I do it, then he’ll want me more, [00:13:30] or he’ll, you know, he’ll just think that I’m good enough. And, you know, those, those things were, were pretty tough too.

Fight The New Drug (00:13:41):
Were there other experiences in your life that you feel like were normalized because of pornography?

Shelby (00:13:48):
Yes. I, I’ve had multiple encounters with, with older men that at the time [00:14:00] so there was one time when I was 13 and my brother had a friend over who was 10 years older than me, so I was 13 and he was 23. And we, me and my other, my other girlfriend were hanging out with my brother and this and this other guy, and they were drinking. And there was a, a moment in the night where I was being cuddled, [00:14:30] kind of, I was being spooned by this 23-year-old, and at the time it felt, oh my gosh, this older guy wants me. And nothing felt wrong about it. And so I think that was, you know, something again that I don’t know, these barely legal or, or sort of, I mean, and that was not legal at all. I was, I was 13.

(00:15:00):
[00:15:00] yeah, but I think some of those titles and some of those things that are displayed in pornography, just, just the titles alone in pornography have been absolutely wild. And, you know, those are things that, again, I just didn’t think it was wrong. And then there was another time when I was 15 and the guy was 25 and he had bought us alcohol. He was a friend’s old, a friend of mine’s older brother, [00:15:30] and he bought us alcohol and he was partying with us. And I remember I was 15, I was a party girl. I loved, again, I love boys, and he was the older guy, and I wanted his attention, and I definitely got it. And then that was the, that was the first encounter I had had where it did feel and at the time I didn’t know this was consent.

(00:15:55):
but it did feel like once, once I got his attention [00:16:00] and once he knew he was gonna have sex with me, I felt like I couldn’t change my mind or say no. And I was very intoxicated. And then I was left alone with this man, and everybody had left, and it was just him and I. And there was a, there was a want, I, I, I remember wanting to say, okay, actually this isn’t what I wanted. But that I didn’t feel [00:16:30] that I could change my mind. And he was already had his, his mind set on it as well. And I remember at the time I had my period, so he actually kind of forcefully did anal. And that was my first experience with that. And that was another thing that was always in pornography was stuff like that. Stuff like anal and just kind of harder hardcore stuff.

(00:16:58):
and that was my first [00:17:00] experience with that, and I was 15. And it’s, to think about it now, it really, you know, I have nieces and I have a nephew that are fif that are 15. And it just to think of them going through that experience is heartbreaking. And it’s just wild to think now that back then I didn’t see anything wrong with it. Although that encounter itself did feel wrong, I just never talked to anybody [00:17:30] about it. And that was an encounter that happened over 15 years ago, and I just told my mom and my sister about it this year. So that just kind of goes to show too that there’s a little bit of, I don’t know if that was shame or, or what it was, because there was also in that story, you have to tell the part of the story where I’m 15 and I am trying to get attention from all these guys, [00:18:00] and in that story, then this happens. There’s a little bit of shame in that. So I think that might have been why it took so long to even talk about it.

Fight The New Drug (00:18:09):
And I’m so grateful that you’ve shared that with us because I know that we have listeners who have experienced something similar. And I think it’s important to note, of course, that wasn’t your fault. You know, you were 15 and I’m so sorry that you had to experience that, but of course it wasn’t your your fault. And for anyone who has been through something like that [00:18:30] please know it’s not your fault, and please know that there are resources available that can help you. And also I think it’s worth noting, you know, any adult should know better than to pursue a minor for sex. And and that’s something we have to talk about too. And so thank you for sharing this part of your story. I imagine it’s so difficult to have to go back and, and kind of relive that, but I do think there’s so much power in sharing the experiences that we’ve had and, [00:19:00] and the ability they have to help us learn and help us create change so that other people don’t have to go through the experiences that you have had. Was porn a normalized part of your relationships in and around that time?

Shelby (00:19:18):
I would say yes. It was shortly after that that I that I got into a relationship with my high school boyfriend. So we were in a relationship for a few years, and I remember [00:19:30] finding magazines and VHS tapes under his bed. And I think at that time when I was, was that age because I was also watching it. But I didn’t put it together really, that, that it was being, that people watch this for also for masturbation and for pleasure. ’cause for, for so many years, it was my kind of go-to of like, how [00:20:00] does the woman need to act and what does she need to do? It was like educational and it’s very much not for sex education, but that is how I was viewing it. Right. And so I thought maybe perhaps that is what my high school boyfriend was, was doing as well.

(00:20:18):
And it, and it could have been that as well. I think that a lot of people at that age are using it to learn. And, you know, I think, I think that’s where [00:20:30] you run into a lot of issues at with teenagers watching it, because then they try to reenact certain things. And so I think, you know, all before I was 18, I had been slapped, choked, hair pulled, things of that nature that I think both myself and the guy at at the time would’ve thought that this is just something we’re reenacting. We’re just trying, [00:21:00] because it’s, we’ve seen it in, in pornography, so they’re trying it, they don’t really know that it’s demeaning and that maybe I don’t want that. And I’m over there thinking, I don’t know if I can say that. I don’t like that. So , I feel like there’s this huge disconnect, and that’s just a part of being young too, and, and being afraid to speak up and not really knowing what consent is.

(00:21:23):
And, and so, but I think overall, yes, it was, it was normalized. And [00:21:30] I, high school was just kind of pornified in general. Everything was about how you looked, how much skin you showed. There was so much, I feel like growing up that, that you hear, that you encounter, that you don’t even realize at the time is kind of pornified stuff. Even being told when I was younger to shave my legs or, or, you know, I wouldn’t be wanted or a guy wouldn’t [00:22:00] wanna have sex with me. I remember being told that very young on the school bus by an older boy and thinking like, Ew, I don’t want a boy to have sex with me anyway, because that’s how young I was, but I had hair on my legs. And this older boy is commenting on that. And it’s just, I don’t know if that is related. It, to me, it kind of seems like it is related to this expectation that porn also sets on how one is supposed to look and act. And [00:22:30] those things all kind of trickled into high school, and that trickles in on your self-esteem and, and changing yourself to fit this kind of expectation. And I, I think that that hurts a lot of people.

Fight The New Drug (00:22:46):
Is this an experience that you feel like your peers at the time were also going through, like other people, or that you were talking about with your peers, other people your age were consuming pornography or having similar types of sexual encounters, [00:23:00] or was it something that you felt kind of isolated in the experience of?

Shelby (00:23:04):
I think watching the porn, I felt isolated. I mean, I just, I didn’t talk about it with anybody and nobody talked about it. We definitely talked about our sexual encounters. That was the main, a main topic of conversation often. And I wasn’t, because I wasn’t the only one in my friend group or in my high school that was, you know, seeking out sexual encounters. But [00:23:30] the porno, but the pornography part of it wasn’t, wasn’t talked about. Like, I didn’t talk to it to to my girlfriends about it. And I sure surely didn’t talk to my parents about it. I did talk to my mom about my first sexual encounter when I lost my virginity, but it was like a year or two later, I waited until I was 15 or 16 to, to tell her that I had lost my virginity. And she is, you know, a safe place to talk about these things with. But [00:24:00] up until that point I didn’t, it wasn’t something I talked to her about.

Fight The New Drug (00:24:05):
How did that feel to you? Did you feel lonely in that experience, or like, you wish you had someone to talk to? Or did it just kind of feel like this just is what it is? I have Google, I’ll answer my own questions there and kind of exist in the, in this space.

Shelby (00:24:20):
I think I sort of just existed in that space for a while of not really knowing that it was isolating, but just, [00:24:30] it just, it is what it, it, it was what it was. And, and I didn’t, I didn’t talk about it, but it did feel, again, a little secretive, you know, because again, at that time you had to, I had to do it either on the computer or just wait for whatever movies were on in the middle of the night. And so then you’re sneaking around and hoping that your parents don’t see it and, [00:25:00] you know, so it was, I I would say it just, it kind of was what it was, and I didn’t, I didn’t feel, I, I mean, I definitely did feel like I, I wasn’t gonna talk to my friends about it, so I don’t, and then, so then, which is kind of sad ’cause then you don’t know what if they were going through it or not as well.

Fight The New Drug (00:25:22):
And I think, you know, we have a lot of parents who listen to this podcast and also some young people. And I just think it’s important to note this is really common [00:25:30] too. Your experience is really common and that, that so many people think, well, I’ll, I can just ask a search engine on the internet, any questions I have that will be, that’ll be safer. All the information I could ever need is, is there. And it is isolating. And, you know, for many parents, just because your child hasn’t brought this to you doesn’t mean it’s not something that they don’t have questions about. Do you think it would’ve made a difference to you if, if your parent or someone at the time would’ve said, Hey, do you have any questions about [00:26:00] sex? Do you have any questions about this?

Shelby (00:26:03):
Yes. I, I absolutely do. I, you know, I think may it would’ve, as far as being curious about sex and self-esteem and everything that goes into that growing up and, and going into high school and stuff, I’m sure I would’ve had some of the same struggles, but perhaps, you know, those, those [00:26:30] blurred lines on consent and, and feeling like I am just here to the, for the pleasure of the guy. I think maybe some of those things would’ve been squashed if someone would’ve talked to me about sex and explained it as it’s between, you know, these two people and your pleasure matters. And you can always say no. If those sorts of things were talked to me [00:27:00] talked about to me, talked me at a, at a younger age during that time, you know, it would’ve, I think it would’ve made a difference.

Fight The New Drug (00:27:09):
Yeah. Can you share with us a little bit about your longest relationship? at what point did you realize he was watching porn? What feelings did you have about that? What was his reaction to those feelings? Kind of take us there.

Shelby (00:27:24):
Yeah, I wildly ended up [00:27:30] with another friend of my brother’s who was 10 years older. So I was 19 we actually started dating on my 19th birthday, and he was 29 just about to turn 30. And I immediately became very attached to him. And that was my first relationship, [00:28:00] I guess, as an adult. I was, you know, almost an adult anyway. And it was probably about a month in that he woke me up one morning and was trying to have sex and I wasn’t in the mood or I didn’t feel good or something, and I just, you know, kind of shrugged it off and went back to sleep. And I woke up later and he wasn’t in the bedroom, so I walked out into the living room and he was [00:28:30] sitting on the couch and he was just like finishing, like, I walked in on the finished product you know, deer in headlights, kind of like, oh, no, I’m, you know, I was busted in this.

(00:28:45):
And I sat down next to him almost, almost like, it didn’t hit me at first what was going on. I just kind of came out and I sat down next to him and then realized this was happening. And I just saw this girl on his phone [00:29:00] looking at the camera, like, like looking at the camera, like she was looking at, at him, you know, I’m, I’m sure it felt personalized or something to him. And I kind of just shut down. I remember going back to the bedroom and he followed, and, you know, back then, I definitely don’t communicate. I definitely didn’t communicate in relationships as, as well as I do now, or like to think I do. Anyway, [00:29:30] and I kind of shut down. And then he tried to talk to me about it, and then I just, I remember telling him I felt betrayed.

(00:29:39):
I felt I had this just heat in the center of my chest, and I felt like he, I just, I, I definitely felt betrayed and I tried to explain that, and it was my, so my, my first encounter with a partner watching it was met [00:30:00] with all the dismissive defensiveness that you could imagine. He defended it. He said it wasn’t a big deal. He said, I was insecure if it, if it upset me that I was jealous. And that was just the beginning. I was with this person for seven and a half, almost eight years, and I didn’t really know [00:30:30] the extent of what I was about to get into. He was older, and I think just that in general with as much porn as he consumed, I I imagine that it kind of created this sort of power dynamic.

(00:30:51):
I felt like looking back at it now, knowing what I know about consent and, and coercion even, [00:31:00] I felt, I feel now looking back, like I was coerced into this relationship with this older man who, to, to me being 19, he had more life experience, he had more knowledge. And he, so, so in results of that he had more power over me. And he, I, I believe he definitely used that. And I think that those power dynamics [00:31:30] are displayed in pornography especially hardcore, like dominating, and it’s, it’s always man dominating woman. And those dynamics were brought into our relationship in our, in our sex life right away. And again, it was something that I wanted to be this good girlfriend. I wanted to do the things that he wanted to do sexually and please him while feeling [00:32:00] like I was dirty or it was demeaning, but, but just not knowing how to express that or that feeling that I could even express that things, things like, again, the choking, the hair, pulling very aggressive oral sex.

(00:32:23):
I remember there was a time where he very aggressively had me do oral and [00:32:30] he was just so hardcore that I ended up throwing up. And that was something I was very embarrassed about. And I, I think I even cried and he laughed, and he, you know, he said, it’s okay, it’s, it, it happens. And almost acted like it was an achievement. There were so many different things [00:33:00] like he wanted to ejaculate on my face. And, you know, those were things that he thought were sexy. And like I was a good girl for doing ’em, and I felt not good. And I felt like, this is not endearing, this is not loving. And I, I definitely just didn’t, didn’t feel like [00:33:30] sexually that he really saw me as a human, a human being. It felt very dehumanizing when we would have sexual encounters.

(00:33:45):
And, and I, and I look back at it now, thinking just how much his sexual appetite was fueled by what he was watching. And it was very [00:34:00] much a, a habitual thing for him, and it caused me to feel so low. So just not good enough, you know, if, if, if I were good enough, why would my partner need to watch this was the biggest feeling and all of it, kind of just wishing, wishing that I was good enough. So it, it creates a story in, in your head [00:34:30] and really dogs on your self-esteem. Being with somebody who it was so influenced by porn and who watched it as often as he did really took a toll on my mental health and wanting him to stop was always a fight, and was, you know, my feelings of being, of feeling betrayed and feeling hurt, you know, he just was not sensitive [00:35:00] to those things and, and caused a lot of, a lot of resentment. And

Fight The New Drug (00:35:13):
I’m so sorry that you had to experience so much. Do you feel like his porn habit escalated throughout your relationship? And as a result, did the things that were expected of you also escalate throughout your relationship? Do [00:35:30] you feel like

Shelby (00:35:32):
It definitely felt like it got worse, especially the more that I pressed or the more that I felt affected by it because it would, it also created almost like a, like he had a hard time becoming aroused [00:36:00] or, or even wanting to have sex with me. And, you know, these were discussions that we had had that there was, you know, ad admittance where, yeah, this, the amount of porn I am watching is definitely disrupting how often we are having sex. So then I felt like we weren’t connecting and that he was choosing to watch pornography versus having a intimate sexual encounter with his partner, which felt, again, [00:36:30] just felt very lonely and very isolating. And I would say that things escalated a little bit as far as maybe he felt like, because I had such an issue with pornography, that he wanted to make it more about my pleasure, but then he was going off of what he was seeing women being appearing to be pleasured by in pornography.

(00:36:58):
So he was buying [00:37:00] pussy pumps and just obscene sex toys and wanting me to try these things. And I, I know there was disappointment if I wasn’t into it. So there were a lot of things that I was agreeing to that I really didn’t enjoy, or, you know, it didn’t feel good and it wasn’t, I don’t know, it just wasn’t what I wanted. I wanted to feel connected to my partner, and [00:37:30] I didn’t wanna watch pornography with them. That was obviously requested , and I, yeah, I think that it escalated in that way of, all right, well, she doesn’t like this, so let’s make it about her. But that was, even, even that was pornified even how he wanted to make it about me. And yeah, just none of it felt very good. Emotionally [00:38:00] or physically.

Fight The New Drug (00:38:03):
What did your own porn consumption look like in that relationship, or at that point, in that relationship?

Shelby (00:38:10):
there are definitely, so at this, at this point I had watched, I had realized that, you know, okay, people are are masturbating to this stuff. And then, so I was getting into that as well. And because he wasn’t stopping, I was [00:38:30] kind of engaging with it because I wanted to see also what he was watching, what he was into. So I tried to gauge that and try to get into that, and then I just kind of got into it on my own, and we weren’t living together, so I would go, we, we spent a few nights a week apart, and I imagine that he was viewing it, and then I was viewing it and kind of just taking care of ourselves and not then [00:39:00] really not needing that, that sexual connection together. And then in that time, I was watching it and realizing just what this, ’cause now I have a phone, right at the, at this point I have a phone and you just go to this website, and now I’m seeing that, oh, there’s all these categories and so much, so much.

(00:39:27):
There’s just endless, endless things [00:39:30] to watch. And then I’m getting sucked into it that way, looking at different categories and then seeing just how dark this gets. And it was kind of a rabbit hole because there was no, you know, no, nobody, we were just getting into that, that area of, all right, now everybody’s got a smartphone. We all have social media on our phones, right, right in our hand. We have everything we need, the internet [00:40:00] and social media and, and PornHub and, and all sorts of things. And nobody really teaches you how to navigate this endless, endless content. And so I definitely got swept into it and very quickly realized that this wasn’t good, and still feeling betrayed by my partner’s consumption of it, and how it was affecting our sex life [00:40:30] and how it was affecting my self-esteem. And that was when I sort of reached out like I needed to find other people that were struggling with this, or whether they were struggling with porn themselves or struggling with their partner’s use of it.

(00:40:50):
I just needed some connection. I needed to know that I wasn’t crazy. And I just, I think I googled one day am I insecure [00:41:00] for feeling betrayed by my partner’s pornography consumption. And that’s when I stumbled upon fight the new drug and stories through fight the new Drug and found this, this community of people that have either struggled. They’re teaching about the, the way that it feels sex trafficking and it’s addictive con like how [00:41:30] addictive it is, and also partners who have been betrayed by it. So all of a sudden I found all these people that relate, and that felt really good. ’cause up until that point, I felt very alone.

Fight The New Drug (00:41:43):
Was it through that, that content that you started to understand really what was happening in your relationship, for example, maybe that coercion was taking place, or how did that impact your perception of what was happening in your own relationship [00:42:00] compared to what you previously thought of it?

Shelby (00:42:05):
Well, it was definitely very validating. And so with validation came this sort of passion of like, this is, this isn’t okay. What, what’s happening isn’t okay for me in, in this, you know, this isn’t, doesn’t work for me and my relationship. And it, [00:42:30] it definitely made me feel like there, there was definitely that coercion dynamic going on. I felt kind of duped. Like, oh my goodness, this older guy came in and sort of swept me up and I was so just naive and I wanted to be wanted, and he wanted me, and he made me feel good. And then, you know, [00:43:00] this that power dynamic of this older person kind of co coercing the, the younger girl you know, they, they make you feel good and boost up your self-esteem. And then once they kind of have you hooked, then they start picking away at you sort of, you know and in, in finding fight the new drug is [00:43:30] sort of where I realized kinda what had happened.

(00:43:35):
You know? And I was, I was still consenting, I was still an adult and I made my own decision to, to be with this person. I guess I just didn’t realize how how tricky it was. And the things that I fell for kind of, I was I fell for a lot [00:44:00] of Abu abuse and attachment, kind of like getting someone attached those tactics that are used and then was made to feel not good enough or criticized. And, you know, he tried to change me or tried to say even that I needed to be fixed, and here’s how we can fix you and those control tactics. And I was very [00:44:30] kinda lost in it.

Fight The New Drug (00:44:33):
Yeah. And you know, even if it is something, as you said, you consented to be in this relationship, there is a difference between consent and informed consent, right? If you didn’t have all of the information, didn’t truly understand what you were getting into, and then kind of little by little there was some manipulation or, or coercion as you mentioned, that escalated over time and you ended up doing things that you probably, if you’d been told at the very beginning, [00:45:00] Hey, all of these things are going to happen, you wouldn’t have agreed to. Right? So I just, once again, I do just wanna say, you know, you didn’t deserve any of the abuse that you experienced, anything that happened to you, and it certainly was not your fault. And if any listeners have gone through something similar I want you to know that as well. Can you tell us a little bit about at what point were you able to leave that relationship?

Shelby (00:45:29):
it was [00:45:30] kind of an on and off, again, relationship throughout the seven years. But we reached a point where we were living together and our sex life was getting worse, our connection was getting worse. And then amongst some of the control and manipulation tech tactics he got into psychedelics and thought that, you know, I, I was in a very depressed [00:46:00] state. I felt very depressed. I felt very kind of mentally just sick. And he thought that I could be fixed with psychedelics. not to say that they don’t in the correct doses help people’s mental health, but that’s conversation for another time. It just wasn’t something that I felt ready for or something that I wanted to consent to, and he didn’t like that. And he [00:46:30] pushed him on me and really felt like I needed them in order to be happy and to be fixed.

(00:46:36):
And for me, it kind of felt like, you want me to do this so that I’m not upset with your behavior anymore, or you think that if I do this, I’m just gonna be happy and all accepting of whatever you’re doing and that, you know I’ll just, I’ll just accept it and you won’t have to hear me talk about it anymore, or nag about it, or however you put it. And [00:47:00] then he, you know, I, I would always say no to it, and then he would kind of say, oh, well, I’m just gonna dose your food. I’m gonna put it in your food. So then on top of all of these things that are going on now, I am paranoid and I am questioning everything he gives me as far as food and drinks. And I’m starting to feel very unsafe in the relationship, which there were already aspects of it that [00:47:30] were unsafe, just not not a good place for me to be.

(00:47:34):
And so when the, these things started happening we very quickly declined went, went downhill, and we ended up moving out. We didn’t live together anymore, and then we were kind of off, and then we were on again. And then I went to pick him up one day and he brought me out a smoothie, [00:48:00] and he got in my car and handed me the smoothie, and I gave it back to him. And I said, I can’t drink this. I just don’t trust you. I don’t trust anything you say or do, and that that’s, that’s it. And he kind of freaked out and he was pissed and got outta the car. And that was our last encounter as a, as a relationship. And that was, that was it. And it was a, again, a culmination of all these things that, that led [00:48:30] me to feeling unsafe, led me to feeling traumatized.

(00:48:33):
Really. I couldn’t trust the person I was with. I couldn’t connect to the person I was with. And all of the, the betrayals and the, you know, the lies, like being told multiple times, okay, I’m not gonna watch pornography anymore. And then they do. And finding out those things, it just, there’s so many things that you just don’t trust. And [00:49:00] I got to a point too where it was like asking somebody to change this for me isn’t really gonna work. You know, he’d have to want that. He’d have to want to change and do that. And I think that helped, helped me move on a little bit too, is that it was never gonna happen by me trying to force it.

Fight The New Drug (00:49:24):
How did your ex respond to the breakup?

Shelby (00:49:28):
Well, there [00:49:30] a few months later, I started dating my now fiance. Yeah, I think, I think we broke up in January or February. And then in the summertime in June, I started dating my fiance now. And he had photos of me sexually explicit photos of me through, from, from throughout our relationship, as you can [00:50:00] imagine, that was seven years. And taking photos of me was another kind of expectation or something that he wanted, which I feel was fueled by, by porn. He wanted to get pictures of me in sexually explicit positions and encounters, and he had all those. And so when he found out I was dating my fiance, he went on to his Facebook profile. [00:50:30] So my fiance’s profile pictures, I think on Facebook, all of our profile pictures are public, and he went on to his my ex went on to his public profile picture, and in the comments posted the photos of me.

(00:50:49):
And to this day, I don’t know exactly which photos they were, but my fiance does, and [00:51:00] we don’t know who else saw them. If, you know, my fiance’s family was on there. And those are things that show up in your feed when someone comments on a one of your photos, it shows up. And but he my fiance reported it right away. He told me about it right away, and Gaza’s pictures removed. But at the time when that happened, I didn’t know there was a thing called revenge porn, and that that [00:51:30] was sort of what that was. And that felt very, yeah, oof. That was, that was embarrassing. I felt very, those were things that I didn’t want my fiance to see and at the time, even really know about. I didn’t want him to know about that experience. You know, I had filled him in a little bit that I had been in a pretty traumatic, kind of a mentally [00:52:00] abusive, and, you know, there were earlier on in our relationship he had also hit me in the face and he had drug me across our kitchen floor by my hair, and he slashed my car tires while I was trying to leave.

(00:52:23):
And there were police involved and all sorts of things that that were telltale signs of, you know, [00:52:30] get out of this relationship. And then after that, I stayed with him for four more years. So it just goes to show that so abusive physically and mentally can have you really stuck. And so, you know, as, as traumatic as that sounds, and then to hear, oh my gosh, you stayed with him after that. I know that doesn’t make sense to a lot of people until you’ve experienced that sort of toxic [00:53:00] relationship. But you know, back to how he reacted after the breakup was very vengeful. And he, he definitely embarrassed me.

Fight The New Drug (00:53:14):
I’m so sorry that you had to experience that. And as you mentioned revenge porn as it’s more commonly called or, you know, non consensually shared images image-based sexual abuse. These are things that so many people have experienced. [00:53:30] And the ramifications of that are, are so broad, you know, having to, to wonder who, you know, who saw that, who, you know, you did, as you mentioned, you didn’t want anyone else to see that. And, and that is a form of abuse as well. And I’m so sorry that you had to experience that and, and all of the things that happened in this relationship. And you just mentioned, you know, maybe you’ll, you’ve heard from some people that have said, well, why did you stay? But as, as you said, so [00:54:00] many people find themselves in situations like this that are difficult to leave for one reason or another. And so again, I wanna say it’s not your fault. And I do wanna ask you, you know, what does life look like now for you?

Shelby (00:54:16):
Yeah, I, well, I’m planning a wedding , and we’re getting married in, I think we’ve got 40 days and

Fight The New Drug (00:54:25):
Congratulations.

Shelby (00:54:27):
Thank you. But it really [00:54:30] looks like a lot of work to heal, to trust. It’s hard to trust another person after an experience like that and being that all the statistics, but I feel that ma, a lot of men, or majority of men in our lives, and women do struggle with porn consumption. So it [00:55:00] wasn’t something that, like I entered into this relationship with this new person, and he was just magically this person that doesn’t watch pornography and doesn’t engage in that sort of behavior. But entering into it, I really wanted to be naive and believe that he was that magical gem that didn’t, and obviously I learned that that wasn’t the [00:55:30] case, and we had our own struggles with it. Especially too, I wanna add, because I think there are some people that aren’t bothered by it when their partner consumes it, when their partner engages in that.

(00:55:50):
So I feel that I was maybe the first partner he had ever had that had an issue with this, or was, or was [00:56:00] deeply affected and hurt by this. So that was something that was new for him. It was normalized and and it was accepted in other relationships prior to me, which is difficult too, because then you kind of have this feeling of like, my goodness am difficult. I’m being, I’m being difficult or I’m being insecure. You [00:56:30] know, my, me and my fiance now, we’ve always had a very healthy sexual connection. But I do feel that there were times where that connection was interrupted by porn consumption, and I could feel that, I could always tell when that was going on. And then, so obviously that brought up conversations and, you know, he [00:57:00] is a very empathetic, supportive partner. But I think when you come at anybody who has been engaging in a certain behavior for most of their, you know, a good portion of their lives, and then you start, and then you come at them and say, this isn’t okay for me, there is a level of defensiveness always.

(00:57:20):
I, and I think naturally you can be as empathetic and supportive and be a wonderful partner, but I think if you’re met with that, you’re gonna kind [00:57:30] of defend yourself and say, wait a second. Like, this isn’t, you know, I, no one’s ever said that this has been a problem until now. So I think that was that was tough to navigate for both of us, and we’re still figuring it out. I mean, these are things that are kind of stamped on you for a little while. And like I said, what life looks like now is a lot of healing and communicating [00:58:00] and making sure that we’re being honest. And it was difficult for me to tell to tell my fiance the stuff that I had been through before, especially, I was afraid that it would sort of devalue or minimize what, what we [00:58:30] were going through together.

(00:58:31):
Like, okay, I’m not, I’m not as bad as your ex was. I’m not even in the same realm, but, but you’re still struggling with this stuff. So I didn’t want it to become something where like, okay, my past is affecting, you know, how I’m, how I’m connecting to you now. Right? But I, I just, I guess I’d want to let anybody know that [00:59:00] it’s, it’s okay to not be okay with your partner engaging in this. And it’s okay if you feel betrayed by it. You’re not crazy. You’re not just this insecure person. This is, I mean, if you look into it, this is real stuff. This affects your brain and it affects how you relate to people, and it affects your level of objectification. And [00:59:30] I just think it’s something that needs to be talked about more without that negative tone on it of, you know, oh, you’re just an insecure person and this doesn’t affect you. It’s, you know, I, I just, I am proof that it is very it does affect the partner.

Fight The New Drug (00:59:56):
Yeah, that’s very well said. And Shelby, I know we’re about out of time, [01:00:00] but is there anything else that you wanted to share with our listeners, or can you tell us anything else about why you decided to share your story?

Shelby (01:00:07):
I wanted to share because I felt alone in it for so long with my own consumption and being the partner of somebody who habitually consumed it. I really just want other people to know that they’re not alone. And again, that if you, if this doesn’t sit right with you, [01:00:30] there’s a reason and it’s valid, and your feelings are valid. And don’t let anybody tell you that they’re not

Fight The New Drug (01:00:38):
Beautifully said. Shelby, thank you so much for your time and to any of our listeners if you’ve experienced anything similar to Shelby or are currently experiencing something similar, please know that there are resources available to you. We will include some in the show notes. And to everyone, please know there is hope. Absolutely. [01:01:00] If you have experienced anything like this or are currently there is always hope and there are always resources available. And please know much like Shelby, it is absolutely not your fault.

Promos (01:01:18):
Did you know that as a 501c3 nonprofit organization, your donations to fight the new drug are 100% tax deductible in the United States? We rely on donations from our fighters [01:01:30] to support our efforts and help us create resources that educate countless individuals on the harms of pornography. Like this podcast, make a tax deductible donation to support the Consider Before Consuming podcast today at ftnd.org/support. That’s F-T-N-D.0.R.G/support.

(01:01:53):
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Introduction (01:02:37):
Thanks for joining us on this episode of Consider Before Consuming. Consider Before Consuming is brought to you by Fight The New Drug. Fight The New Drug is a non-religious and a non-legislative organization that exists to provide individuals the opportunity to make an informed decision regarding pornography by raising awareness on its harmful effects, using only science, facts and personal accounts. [01:03:00] Check out the episode notes for resources mentioned in this episode. If you find this podcast helpful, consider subscribing and leaving a review. Consider Before Consuming is made possible by listeners like you. If you like to support Consider Before Consuming, you can make a one-time or recurring donation of any amount at fntd.org/support. That’s F-T-N-D.O-R-G/support. Thanks again for listening. We [01:03:30] invite you to increase your self-awareness, look both ways, check your blind spots, and consider before consuming.