Fight the New Drug Ad: Talking about porn can be tricky. That’s why we created an interactive conversation guide called Let’s Talk About Porn. Simply select who you’d like to talk to, your partner, child, friends, parents, or even a stranger, and select the type of conversation you’d like to have. We’ll walk you through a healthy way to approach this taboo topic in a productive conversation. Let’s Talk About Porn is available for free, both in English, and Spanish so you can be prepared to talk when someone asks why you’re listening to a podcast about the harms of porn. Access the guide, and start talking at FTND.org/blueprint. That’s FTND.org/blueprint.

Garrett Jonsson: My name is Garrett Jonsson, and you’re listening to Consider Before Consuming, a podcast by Fight the New Drug.

And in case you’re new here, Fight the New Drug is a non-religious and non-legislative organization that exists to provide individuals the opportunity to make an informed decision regarding pornography by raising awareness on its harmful effects using only science, facts, and personal accounts.

We want these conversations to be educational, uplifting, and hopeful. As we sit down with experts, influencers, activists, and people with personal accounts, we cover a wide variety of topics that may be triggering to some- this discussion includes explicit discussions of sex acts, child sexual abuse, sex trafficking, eating disorders, suicide ideation, and drug use. Listener discretion is advised. Listener discretion is advised.

Today’s episode is with Deanna Lynn. Deanna experienced childhood neglect, and child sexual abuse- many of her experiences in her early childhood normalized pornography. Because of her upbringing, at an early age she knew that she wanted to be in porn. During this conversation we talk about how she ended up in the porn industry, how she transitioned out, and what she’s up to today.

With that being said, let’s jump into the conversation, we hope you enjoy this episode of Consider Before Consuming.

Garrett Jonsson: Well, I want to say thanks for being with us today. First of all.

Deanna Lynn: Yeah, thanks for having me.

Garrett Jonsson: And second of all, I want to apologize for being late.

Deanna Lynn: Yeah. I actually had that happen. Um, and I’m very, very, very schedule oriented. Um, but I was volunteering somewhere and it was a Thursday and at the end of the day I realized it was Thursday and I just didn’t show up. I was like, “How does that even happen?” [laughter]

Garrett Jonsson: [laughter] Yeah, that makes me feel better. Well, I think it’d be important for our audience to get to know kind of who you are before. We’re going to, uh, why we’re speaking with you.

Deanna Lynn: Sure. Uh, nowadays I am actually a mother of twin girls. They are 16 months old and so we spend most of our time just watching everything that they do because they are fascinating.

Garrett Jonsson: [laughter]

Deanna Lynn: Um, so that’s, that’s pretty much what we spend, spend our time doing. I do get to, um, manage a global nonprofit from home. Uh, something kind of unrelated to some of the areas that I minister to and that’s fun. Uh, it gives me an outlet to serve people who are doing other types of work in different countries.

Garrett Jonsson: Wow. Well, that’s awesome. And knowing that you have twins that are 16 months old, makes me even more grateful that you’re with us today because it can be challenging to get away as a, you know, as a mom, what’s the most challenging part about having twins?

Deanna Lynn: Uh, I have to say in the beginning, the most challenging part was, um, feeding one and hearing the other cry. Uh, so like when my husband works at nights, um, and it’s my turn to do like bath time on my own. It’s really hard. Um, because like one will be screaming for my attention while I’m tending to the other. But now that they’re getting older, they’re kind of like, they know I’m coming back.

Garrett Jonsson: Okay. That makes sense. It can be a full-time job just to manage, just like to care for one. And so I can’t imagine caring for two at the same time.

Deanna Lynn: Yes.

Garrett Jonsson: It’s a wild adventure.

Deanna Lynn: It’s a lot of work.

Garrett Jonsson: Well, one of the questions that I like to ask people is something that makes them happy and then something that they’re proud of. And one of the reasons why I like asking this, those questions, what makes you happy? And one thing that you’re proud of is because it kind of gives you an opportunity to brag a little bit, you know, when most people aren’t really comfortable with bragging.

Deanna Lynn: Mhm. [laughter]

Garrett Jonsson: So we want to put you on the spot, Deanna and ask, you know, what makes you happy and what are, what’s something that you’re proud of?

Deanna Lynn: Well, besides my twin, so I call my little joy bubbles, um, Christmas movies, Christmas music, anything, um, Christmasy, and see that, that makes me happy, uh, and anything to do with interacting with animals.

Garrett Jonsson: Well, what about something that you’re proud of?

Deanna Lynn: Um, I’d say honestly, one thing that I’m proud of is finishing my master’s degree. Um, you know, I had to, I had only really been around women for three years before going into school. And I, any schooling I had done before was online. And so taking like my new healing and interacting with people and learning this whole, like social dynamic of living on campus and, and doing the grad school life, um, it was a lot emotionally, but also, uh, intellectually like being around such academic people. And I was there just having fun learning.

Garrett Jonsson: Right.

Deanna Lynn: Um, and it was very intimidating, but I, I finished to the end, despite so many things that tried to come against me.

Garrett Jonsson: Wow. Yeah. That’s an impressive feat and you’ve accomplished it. Good job.

Deanna Lynn: [laughter] Thanks.

Garrett Jonsson: Are you still studying or are you done with school?

Deanna Lynn: Uh, I’m definitely still studying. I’m actually to go into a doctorate program that I want to go into. I need, um, 72 master’s level hours and I only have a 69, so I need one more course and then I can apply for research.

Garrett Jonsson: Wow. And then at that point, we’ll have to refer to you to as Dr. Lynn, I guess?

Deanna Lynn: How fun is that? [laughter]

Garrett Jonsson: It’s going to be cool. Well, we always feel fortunate to record conversations for our podcast consider before consuming. Um, but we especially feel grateful when we have the opportunity to speak with someone who is a former performer or a survivor. Um, so we just want to say thanks for, for being here. The not only being here today, the reason why we’re able to have this conversation with you today is because you have showed up and put in the work, you know, day in and day out for, for years now.

Deanna Lynn: Yes.

Garrett Jonsson: Well, we talked about kind of what you’re up to now. Um, we want to jump back to why we’re speaking with you and going all the way back to when you were a child, you know, it’s, it’s not uncommon for people who have been involved in the porn industry to, you know, express that certain things in their childhood almost like groomed them in a, in a sense for the porn industry.

Deanna Lynn: Mhm.

Garrett Jonsson: Was there anything in your childhood that you can identify that “groomed” you for the porn industry?

Deanna Lynn: Sure. Uh, you know, I actually didn’t even realize that it had happened until I was like probably five or six years in the porn industry and I was doing EMDR sessions and I was going back to some of those places and I was like, “Oh my gosh, this is all connected. I no wonder I chose this path.” But, um, yeah, when I was, when I was five,…

Garrett Jonsson: For our listeners…Oh, sorry to interrupt you. But for our listeners, I don’t know if everyone listening will understand, uh, you know, be familiar with what EMDR is and how you kind of jumped back to those things in your early childhood. Can you talk to that a little bit before we go into those experiences that did groom you?

Deanna Lynn: Absolutely. Uh, so while I was in the industry, I started having flashbacks of different things that were happening in my life. And the thing about unprocessed memories, um, is that you, uh, or trauma in general is that we continue to relive these experiences. Um, and so I needed some sort of tool that would help me to process the memory so that they could get filed away so that my whole being didn’t feel them all the time. And so basically it was like, um, where I would just like either watch fingers or I’d use a little tools in my hands that allowed my brain to go from left brain to right brain while I processed the memory. Um, and it just helped lessen the extreme, uh, feelings that came up when I would have flashbacks.

Garrett Jonsson: Right. It’s almost one of the purposes of EMDR. If I’m not mistaken is kind of taking memories that are, um, in like the, the hidden memories that we have and taking them to the forefront of our mind. And then as you reprocess those, they become, like you said, you know, not as traumatizing as that kind of a…

Deanna Lynn: Yes, they, they become filed away because the thing is, is our body still remembers things. Even if our brain did this magnificent job of, you know, our brains do amazing things to just cope, and survive. Uh, but our body is still carries a lot of that. And so sometimes we need to get them on the same page.

Garrett Jonsson: Right. Okay. Well, thanks for explaining that. That’s interesting that you were doing that while you were in the porn industry.

Deanna Lynn: Yeah. I had no idea that maybe the industry was causing so of it, but yeah.

Garrett Jonsson: Huh, that’s interesting. Well, jumping back to some of those memories that you were able to deal with during your EMDR sessions, can you talk to some of those?

Deanna Lynn: Sure. Uh, so I was about five years old and, uh, living on a military base when my mom had called me in a room and she had, um, she was playing porn on the TV and, uh, she found it really funny to watch me, um, react and get scared and stuff like that. And so she would set me up with things like this, um, either on the TV or she’d get my dad ready, who I called my dad, who was, um, he had adopted us, uh, he like, she would get him ready, like they were about to come together and, um, and she would have me like walk in and, and get scared. And then she’d like, turn me around and do it again. Um, and tell me, you know, between the movies and watching them, she would say, uh, “This is normal. This is how we were made.” Like, she was like helping me to get comfortable with like sexuality. But the thing is, is like no one actually talked to me about healthy sexuality. I just saw these things. And, um, these things acted out and, and I would continue to see them in my dreams as, as a child, uh, pretty much for the rest of my life, up until about a few years ago.

Garrett Jonsson: Wow. Do you currently have contact with your mom in the sense of, are you guys still in contact? Do you have a relationship today?

Deanna Lynn: No. So she actually ended up dying of a heart attack, uh, before I turned 11 years old. And so most of what I remember about womanhood was taught to me before I was 11. Um, through some of these, these things.

Garrett Jonsson: Um, my mom, her mother passed away when she was around 12 years old. And it’s, you know, it’s been a lifetime challenge for her to, to not have her mom and her life.

Deanna Lynn: Yes.

Garrett Jonsson: Has that been the case for you?

Deanna Lynn: Oh, yes. Um, I mean, it’s so hard, like, you know, even becoming a mom, um, not knowing like, like if she did become healthy, could she have been an ally in my life? Um, and just, you know, like every single life experience, like what would it be like to have gone to my mom, uh, before my honeymoon and had like some talks with her, or, you know.

Garrett Jonsson: Right.

Deanna Lynn: even though like we got off to a really bad start and she was in a very unhealthy place, I do believe she could have gotten better, you know, and I believe that she was trying, um, with what she had.

Garrett Jonsson: Right. Interesting. So do you think that experiencing the death of your mom at a young age, do you think that that was also one of the things that possibly, you know, I, I used the word groomed and I don’t know if that word is appropriate for this situation, but do you think that that almost like forced neglect because you didn’t have your mom, do you think that that added to you and like pushed you in the direction of pornography? Or no?

Deanna Lynn: I would say, um, what it did is it didn’t stop me from going in that direction. Right? So the lack of guidance, the lack of having someone guide me into, um, adolescence and all of those things. And so I, without that guidance, I could only look to the world and what the world was telling me I was and what they wanted from me. And so it was like, it seemed like an easy choice from there.

Garrett Jonsson: Yeah.

When you say that the world was telling you this and leading you in this direction, what messages were you getting from the world? How did, how were you getting those messages?

Deanna Lynn: Well, so one, uh, pornography continued to be a part of my household. Like, like the movies were constantly in the house. Um, you know, even though like CPS had come and removed him, when my mom was alive a few times, like they, like, we still knew where the stash was. And so that, that right there is telling me, like, this is an acceptable part of culture. Plus I grew up in a time, you know, I was born in the eighties. And so I feel like that might’ve been like a real big boom for the industry, because I remember I’m like triple X rated movie theaters and stuff like that around. Um, my sister was dancing in a club. She was four years older than me. I’m sorry, stripping. I like to call things what they actually are. She was stripping in a club.

Garrett Jonsson: Yeah.

Deanna Lynn: And, um, and so I, you know, I kind of looked at her as like an idea of womanhood and, um, the people in our high school and junior high, like they would call me names. And I was just like, “Man, this must be like the only thing I’m good for.” Um, and without that lack of guidance, so it was like, I felt like I was pushed into, uh, becoming sexualized. And that seemed to be the only way I could get people’s attention. And so I, I went to some extreme measures just for somebody to notice me.

Garrett Jonsson: Right. And that makes sense. I think that, yeah, we as individuals need certain things and love and acceptance and, you know, genuine as all those things we need. And if you’re not getting that in healthy ways and sometimes, you know, we can seek it in ways that are harmful.

Deanna Lynn: Right.

Garrett Jonsson: Um, at what point did you begin to calm to in plate porn as a possible career?

Deanna Lynn: Uh, so this is the interesting part about my story, most people will like say things like no child wants to grow up in ban pornography or be a prostitute. Uh, I was in first grade, I was in first grade walking to school. I remember exactly, um, where I was walking when I thought, like, when I grew up, I want to be a porn star that was after I had moved off the base. Um, and so I probably had exposure maybe a couple of times by then. Um, but I just thought that’s what being a woman was. And I that’s what I was going to do, but I also want it to be a lawyer. Like I, I knew I had, um, you know, my mom was really good about, uh, training us up to be women who could take care of ourselves who are competent. She was like a, uh, a statewide celebrated insurance agent. Um, so we had that going for us too. So I was very driven, um, and wanted a career, but I also was very sexualized at an early age as well.

Garrett Jonsson: Wow. And for me as a person who has kids, when you say first grade, I know exactly how young that is because, you know, I have kids that are that age. And it’s tough to…

Deanna Lynn: Yeah. It’s tough to imagine.

And then going back to the culture question, you know, one of my mom’s favorite movies was the movie Pretty Woman. And she would play that over and over, um, when she was, when she was drinking that and dirty dancing and, um, and it made it like this heroic story. And so by the time I was in second grade and I was like fed up with the abuse, the physical abuse that I was experiencing at home, I ran away and like, thought that that was my life, that I was going to have to be a prostitute, someone to love me and take me in and what, like, I’m eight years old by the time I’m in second grade. And I’m literally trying to model my life after what I saw. I’m Pretty Woman.

Garrett Jonsson: Wow. So at this age, if I’m understanding correctly, you had this thought of being in porn, you also had this thought, not of being a lawyer.

Deanna Lynn: Yeah.

Garrett Jonsson: Did you think at that age that you would do both, or did you think that you would use pornography as a vehicle to, to become a lawyer? Did you think that far in advanced and in that much detail?

Deanna Lynn: [laughter] So unfortunately my thought process, um, I wanted to like run for treasurer of the state.

Garrett Jonsson: [laughter] I just have to laugh because…

Deanna Lynn: Like, I, I, I, I want it to be in politics.

Garrett Jonsson: Wow.

Deanna Lynn: I had big, big dreams, um, and I wanted to do everything. And so I just felt like, you know, if that, like, and I didn’t go anywhere with this at the time, I can only like, see it in hindsight. But like, I remember thinking like, if this is, if I’m going to go the route of pornography, like that’s going to be something I do when I’m young. Um, and then I’ll go into like a career after that. And then I never thought about it again until after I left the industry and was like, how did I end up there?

Garrett Jonsson: Wow. Yeah. You start realizing how fast life goes. Right. Well, is it safe to say then that you thought that the porn industry would improve your quality of life?

Deanna Lynn: Yeah. So by the time I actually encountered, um, uh, the, uh, I hate to say opportunity, but by the time I was offered a career in pornography, um, yeah, at that point I was, I was addicted to drugs. I was living on the street. I was, um, like sleeping in uhauls, if I was sleeping. Um, and I was trying to escape jail time. And it was like, when I got offered this chance to make something of myself, you know, a lot of times what they’ll do is they’ll, they’ll take you to these high-end bars and they’ll introduce you to like really rich people who can, you know, give you this lifestyle and they pick you up in limos. And, uh, they put you up in mansions. Like the girls will live in a mansion together and stuff like that. And so, um, yes, that life to look a lot, looked a lot more appealing than me being drugged out on the street.

Garrett Jonsson: Yeah. It’s almost seems like they take individuals who are experiencing extreme hardship…

Deanna Lynn: Mhm.

Garrett Jonsson: … and then they put them into a situation where it’s almost like they try to recreate a setting like a family setting because they’re having you live with other girls. Did you find that comforting to live with other girls in that setting?

Deanna Lynn: Uh, yeah, I did. Um, that the interesting thing about the industry is, you know, like once you get in the industry, you don’t really have contact outside of the industry and that it’s not that we can’t, they don’t force us not to, but like the things that we talk about and we see, and the way that we act, it’s just not socially acceptable. Um, and so that does kind of become Lior your place of belonging.

Garrett Jonsson: Right.

Deanna Lynn: When I went under contract with the company that I ended up going under contract with, uh, you know, they became my family. And, um, yeah, it was like the interesting thing about acceptance. Is it instead of like becoming someone better? Um, it’s not that like who we all were were bad. It’s just like, we, we each had some, some damage in some areas, but, uh, it was, there was something really refreshing about just everybody knowing everything about you and you just were.

Garrett Jonsson: Yeah.

Deanna Lynn: Yeah.

Garrett Jonsson: It’s almost like you were experiencing the, the benefit of genuineness, even though you weren’t in like, in a state of ideal authenticity.

Deanna Lynn: Right.

Garrett Jonsson: That’s, that’s interesting. Well, thanks for sharing that.

Deanna Lynn: Yeah.

Garrett Jonsson: As you went and met with these people at these bars, and, you know, you mentioned you, I think you used the term, like these wealthy individuals with nice cars. Do you think that that was part of the grooming process for you?

Deanna Lynn: Yes. So that’s actually, that’s a huge tactic that they use. Um, not only for people who maybe are lacking guidance and are maybe living like an impoverished life, but also for, for teenagers for 18 year olds, um, producers will, they, they introduce you to famous people and they want to get you out of your small town life and small town mentality and all this stuff. And, um, and it’s, it’s like another addiction almost like just the need, the want, the desire to be anywhere, anybody but yourself. Um, and I remember that a producer, a former producer actually wrote about him doing that. Like he would take the girls and you would, uh, he had pictures of him with famous people all around. And, um, it’s, it’s almost like a drug dealer. I’ve got to say, especially with my background in drug addiction, like they give you a taste. Um, and then like, after you’ve experienced it, like, it’s like, “Well, how far will you go to continue this?”

Garrett Jonsson: Right. That makes sense. Some of the language that you’re using is making me wonder if you ever experienced trafficking during your time in the porn industry. And as you’re aware, the definition of sex trafficking, legally speaking within the US is a commercial sex act induced by force fraud or coercion, or if a person is under the age of 18.

Deanna Lynn: Mhm.

Garrett Jonsson: And so I’m wondering if you can identify or have identified that you did experience force fraud coercion, or, or underage involvement while you were in the industry?

Deanna Lynn: Yeah. I do like to help people make those connections while I don’t like to be identified, um, like specifically as such, I do like to tell people there are, there are connections. There are similarities, like when I was officially. So I had started at a restaurant that exploited women, right? And they, um, I was entered into a swimsuit competition at 17. The winner want to lay out and like a famous nude magazine. And it was like, like they would teach me that there are, uh, socially acceptable ways to sell sex. Um, but through working there, I actually started modeling, uh, some suits and lingerie for a local tanning salon with some of the other girls and the leader, uh, that arranged for this. She was like this beautiful, uh, woman. And, um, and she’s the one that introduced me to my agent who ended up being my pimp because they started off with like modeling gigs.

And then it was like more alcohol was available. And then like, this guy wants to do a private with you in life offers obscene amounts of money. And it’s like, you’re already drunk. You’re like, “whatever.” Um, and then after a while you get so demoralized that you’re just like, you know, “whatever”, um, you’re demoralized, you’re dehumanized. Um, so there’s that connection there. The other thing that I think people don’t recognize is like our need to make money, make a living. Right? So after you’ve been to moralized and, um, and dehumanized, it’s like, “Well, like how do we, how do I get a job after this?” Right? And everyone will tell you, like, “You can’t do anything else.” And so, like the part of the grooming process that Mike, my pimp put me through is that I would have to learn how to tolerate certain things and certain amounts of violence and roughness and all of this stuff.

Um, so that I would even get hired. And if you even looked like you didn’t enjoy it, like they’re not going to give you another job. And it’s like, well, if you think that’s your only option, then you better play the part. Well, right. So going on from there, um, and I met like this life turning point in my career because sometimes they will change like the, the acts on you. Um, I didn’t experience too much of that. Um, but I know a lot of people did. Um, but for me, like, like I was, I went under with this company and they were producing this global award winning series every year. This series, um, won awards everywhere and, and I was supposed to be on the box cover. And so they wanted to pair me with somebody that was known for how violent he was and he was in Europe.

And, um, and so I drank the whole day just to, I was so scared of how much this was going to hurt that I, like they had beer on tap. Like it literally came out of the sink in Prague. Um, and by the time we shot the scene, they said they couldn’t even use it because I looked like a rape victim. They were like, “She looks like she’s being raped.” And I had to redo the whole thing. Um, and it’s like, I wasn’t forced to do that, but there was so much pressure to stay with this company and to, um, and to keep getting work and all of this stuff that I was like, “Okay, I’ve got to figure out how to tolerate this or else I am going to be out of options.”

Garrett Jonsson: It’s almost like this balancing act of you need to be high. You need to be inebriated in some way to deal with the pain, but you can’t be too high or else you appear to not being enjoying it.

Deanna Lynn: Right. And I, I had that problem a lot finding that balance.

Garrett Jonsson: Is it safe to say that that fueled drug use?

Deanna Lynn: Uh, so my drug use started beforehand and I actually ended up having to get off of drugs, um, to work for the companies that were hiring me. And like I said, it’s, it’s a really interesting thing because like, they’ll, they’ll offer you like some really, uh, expensive alcohol. Um, but you can’t drink too much because you can’t end up like sloppy, but so trying to figure out, like, how am I going to get enough alcohol to get through this where it doesn’t change my appearance. Um, and so, yeah, it’s very interesting.

Garrett Jonsson: Thanks for sharing that. I just think it’s so valuable to be able to speak with you, a person who has experienced these things. And I think that it helps our audience, whether the person is someone who is a performer currently and wants to get out of the industry or someone who is consuming pornography, or all of those possible scenarios, it’s, it’s beneficial to hear from you. And so again, I just want to acknowledge that you’re awesome. And we appreciate you sharing these, uh, details going back to that scenario where you were in Europe and you were trying to, it sounds like you were trying to elevate your career because you wanted that cover. Right? You wanted to be on that cover to see almost like secure a career or advance career in some way.

Deanna Lynn: Right.

Garrett Jonsson: So the first attempt they, they said that they weren’t going to use the footage, is that correct?

Deanna Lynn: Correct. Uh, they, I mean, I have no idea where that footage is now. Um, but yeah, we had to, they couldn’t use it and we had to shoot reshoot the scene. And so the interesting thing is, um, the producer, the owner of that company ended up coming into set to be there because the director of that series was known for how much he had put women through. And he literally was like, “If I’m not on that set to stop this at a certain point, like she will not come back.” And so like in a, in an interesting way, like he protected me, but enough so that I would stay in.

Garrett Jonsson: Right. It’s almost like he was protecting you. And at the same time exploiting you so he could continue to exploit you.

Deanna Lynn: Right.

Garrett Jonsson: That’s interesting. Well, we talked about how at a young age, you were told whether it was directly or indirectly, that porn could be a good option for you and improve your quality of life, and then moving into your late teens and working for that restaurant, that exploited women, and then, you know, getting brought into the porn industry and the way that that happened, it was also advertised that this could be, uh, improve your quality of life. And so I’m wondering at what point did that promise get upended?

Deanna Lynn: So the really hard thing about my career is that it kept going, um, in the direction that everybody was promising, but my mental health and my spiritual state was going the opposite direction. And, uh, so for awhile it was like, I could hide behind this character, this lifestyle, we could see how far we could take this. But then there was like this other part of me that was like dying, like literally dying inside. And, um, you know, I’d go home at night. And then it was like, “Does anybody like really care?” Like, I, I get all, you know, like fans come and see me and stuff like that. But, um, and they, they try to get to know me and, and all of that. But like when it came to like, like I’m not going out on dates and I don’t really have friends outside the industry and it’s like, “If I’m not selling my body, do I even really have anything anymore?” And that was a really scary place to be.

Garrett Jonsson: At…

Deanna Lynn: And the, and the, the risk factor kept going up. Right? So it’s like all of a sudden you’re, you’re participating in conversations, um, that I didn’t know were abnormal. Um, you know, like the producers would say like how hot it is. Um, if, you know, in certain countries, uh, you could have sex with somebody that was, you know, this much under age and it was still legal. Um, and I would hear these conversations and I would go to the, um, the trade shows every year and the award shows and, uh, people were being prostituted to the buyers just to even have them pick up their product. And I just started seeing like, it, like, it’s literally feeling like all this trafficking just to even sell porn. Um, and I just, I started becoming more aware of what I was actually a part of. It was also scary.

Garrett Jonsson: Wow. We, as an organization run a campaign every year and we call it the stop the demand campaign. And we talk about how pornography fuels sex trafficking. And I think for a person that isn’t familiar with some of these details, I don’t think that they understand that there is a connection between pornography and sex trafficking, but it sounds like you, like, you’ve mentioned that connection, one of those connections today.

Deanna Lynn: Yeah. Just one of the connections that, and, uh, pornography. So my friends, you know, that have been trafficked by like kidnap, um, you know, like all this, like, but had absolutely no choice in the matter. Um, they, their, their traffickers would use pornography to get them trained in what the people were going to expect from them. And so, like, they even used pornography that way.

Garrett Jonsson: Yeah. Again, like almost like a grooming tool.

Deanna Lynn: Yeah.

Garrett Jonsson: Well, if I, a person who has never been in the porn industry, tried to imagine transitioning into the porn industry, I can only compare it to other transitions that I’ve made in my life, whether it’s like getting a job or having children, or going back to school after dropping out. And as I experience any of those transitions, they can be very challenging and very difficult to manage. And as a person, like I said, who hasn’t been in pornography, I’m curious, were there some unexpected transitions that were very difficult to mention or to navigate that we haven’t mentioned yet?

Deanna Lynn: I think one of the hardest things is just being away from, from family and friends and, uh, and not being able to talk to them about what you’re actually experiencing. So I would say like, “Hey dad, if I’m I’m shooting documentaries today.” and they all knew what was happening. Um, but they were just like, so happy that I was off the street, that nobody really talked about it, you know?

Garrett Jonsson: Right.

Deanna Lynn: Um, and so that’s probably one of the harder transitions is that, like, you can’t like, you don’t go home on Christmas and Thanksgiving. I’m being like, like, “Guess what I got to do for work this week.” you know?

Garrett Jonsson: Yeah. Okay. Yeah. That makes sense. Well, going back to your first contract, you mentioned that you signed a contract. Um, I’m just wondering if you can share some of those details with us of how often you were required to perform, um, things like that. And then at what point did it become overwhelming?

Deanna Lynn: Um, so, you know, my experience was that like, my contract was a way for, it was like a safety measure for me, because if I signed this contract, I wouldn’t have to work for just any company with any person and like all this stuff. Um, I had a little bit more say and what I could do. And so it seemed like a better option for me. Um, and also I, you know, with the contract, um, I wouldn’t have to work as much. So I, you know, I, I had some benefit to making that next decision, uh, while I was there. I think what got overwhelming to me was, um, I actually ended up ending that contract. Um, they had allowed me to work in the office. Part of my contract was like, I want some life skills and some insurance and pay for my testing and medical. And they got, you know, got me counseling and all of this stuff. Um, and so I used it as a way to gain some other life experience, even though it was still inside the industry. And, um, so going back and forth from like the office work to, um, now all of a sudden I have to get naked and in the makeup chair, I think one of the hardest things for me was like always being naked. And like, when am I going to get to eat? Cause I literally watched myself, you know, I was like 105 pounds and I would watch them airbrush every like “flaw”, like anything. And it’s like, if, if I’m taking pictures all day, uh, especially at these trade shows, um, it’s like going from, from one suite to the next, uh, for whatever magazine and stuff. And it was like, I couldn’t eat. That was very overwhelming to me.

Garrett Jonsson: Oh, wow.

Deanna Lynn: I was so tired. Like I just wanted to eat, um, and not have to worry about what I was going to look like after I did.

Garrett Jonsson: Wow. Did that lead to any type of eating disorders?

Deanna Lynn: Oh yeah. I didn’t even realize I had struggled with that until like, you know, I went from the porn industry to the fitness industry and man, like, you’re still your own market. Like your body is still what sells you. And so I was like down to 500 calories a day and taking supplements and 80% like raw vegan and, um, yeah, it was bad. That was a lot. I had to undo as far as getting comfortable in my own skin and just being, I mean, I came to Kentucky, like we love to eat out here.

Garrett Jonsson: [laughter]

Deanna Lynn: Everything’s casseroles. And you bake with your old bacon grease and yeah, I had to learn a few things. [laughter]

Garrett Jonsson: Yeah. Well, you mentioned that while you were in the porn industry, you were trying to get other experience almost like to fill your resume in a sense.

Deanna Lynn: Yes.

Garrett Jonsson: Going back to you mentioning that you wanted to be a lawyer at an early age. Were you working on any of those things while in the porridge industry?

Deanna Lynn: Um, no. I actually got captivated, um, through a holistic health and orthopedic exercise because of all the trauma that my own body had been through. By the time I was 23, like I was living with chronic pain, uh, both mentally and physically. And so, uh, the trainer that was training me while I was there. Um, she was teaching people with all kinds of, um, limited abilities, how to move again without, uh, becoming addicted to pain medicine and stuff like that.

Garrett Jonsson: Wow, that’s cool.

Deanna Lynn: And, um, I just became captivated with what, like how amazing our bodies actually are from the inside out. And I went into that field.

Garrett Jonsson: Right. Wow. That’s amazing. That’s really cool. I got a certificate in holistic nutrition. I really enjoy exercise. So I, yeah, I find that really fascinating, really cool that you are into that. Do you still do that today?

Deanna Lynn: Uh, up until about a few months ago, uh, I was still doing that and I probably will incorporate that again. I actually worked for a campus ministry, um, out here. And so it was, it was just amazing that I got to continue doing that work from a much healthier perspective instead of from like image management, but actually about like holistic care. Uh, but you know, having the twins, like I had to let something go for a, yeah.

Garrett Jonsson: Well, going back to the pain that you mentioned, you said you had some chronic pain and I do want to state upfront front before I ask this question that if asked questions that you don’t want to answer, then just say, you’d rather not answer. That’s totally fine.

Deanna Lynn: Sure.

Garrett Jonsson: But I’m wondering if some of that chronic pain was caused because of pornography?

Deanna Lynn: Oh yes. Uh, now I’ve also been in seven car accidents, so, um, I I’ve definitely have a lot of pain from that, but yeah. I mean, there would be situations where my back would go out. Um, and at the time that I was in the industry, you not only shot the movie, but then you had to take a bunch of photos, recreating the movie for the cover before they started capturing it from the film.

Garrett Jonsson: Oh, yeah.

Deanna Lynn: And so, um, yeah, the positions that they, that the women would have to go into, um, like my back would go out and they literally wouldn’t move me. They would just keep going anyways. Um, and it was just like a common thing, like you just pushed through.

Garrett Jonsson: Yeah. Well, one of the common things around pornography is objectification that you stop seeing a person as a person with thoughts, feelings, and emotions.

Deanna Lynn: Mhm.

Garrett Jonsson: And, you know, you start to see that as an individual, as an object. I’m wondering if that’s how you saw yourself, how, how pornography affected your self image and your self esteem?

Deanna Lynn: Yeah. Uh, that’s exactly how I saw myself. Um, I really didn’t know how to connect with myself as a person anymore. And so, uh, transitioning out of the industry, probably one of my favorite things is that like, I don’t have to do all these things anymore. Right? Like I don’t have to go tanning. I don’t ha I don’t have to dye my hair. Um, I like all those things to keep up this image that everybody else wanted you to be like, I get to just be today. Um, and I really that love that freedom, but yeah, that’s, that’s a really scary place to be for a lot of people that I know that we’re on the brink of getting out. Uh, one of the things that we’ll say is like, “If I don’t get out now, I’m going to become this forever.” And like, um, whatever our real name was like, my name’s Deanna, Deanna is going to be gone. Or, and I would hear that from other girls, like, you just get so far in that, like, that is what, who you become. And yeah.

Garrett Jonsson: Yeah. It’s almost like, because our brains are always changing and we’re always evolving as people. We can like even going, getting really science-y like talking about, neuro-plasticity like, you can become a different person and that is your new, authentic self, even though it’s not like your ideal authenticity.

Deanna Lynn: Right.

Garrett Jonsson: Does that make sense?

Deanna Lynn: Yeah. And that’s, that’s a really hard part of the healing process. Um, and actually I wrote a book, uh, on the whole integration process afterwards of figuring out like who I am as all of me, because like first I was like known for being in pornography. Then I was known for not being in pornography anymore. [laughter]

Garrett Jonsson: Oh, interesting.

Deanna Lynn: And it was like, okay, well, what about all these other aspects of my life? How do I continue to move forward and not deny that part of my life? Because that, like, that can be troublesome too, if we’re just like, you know what, forget it. That was her. That wasn’t me. I was like, no, that actually was you. So let’s try to figure out how to move forward as a whole person.

Garrett Jonsson: Wow, that’s beautiful thing.

Deanna Lynn: Yeah.

Garrett Jonsson: I like that. One of the phrases that you used re just barely is the term or the phrase, just be you, you, you you’ve said that you didn’t have to go tanning and dye your hair. You’ve just been able to just be, and that’s a beautiful thing.

Deanna Lynn: Yes.

Garrett Jonsson: And that’s, I hope that all of our listeners can get to the point where they get to experience that and just be, you know, there’s an, there’s a level of genuineness and acceptance there that is very rewarding to feel.

Deanna Lynn: Yes.

Garrett Jonsson: going back to my question about how you kind of, you began to see yourself as an object. I don’t hear that very often on the performer’s side. Oftentimes we talk about, I guess I shouldn’t say I don’t hear it very often. I guess I should say we don’t talk about that a lot that the performer sees themselves as an object. Oftentimes we talk about how the viewer, the person on the other side of the screen is objectifying to the performer.

Deanna Lynn: Yes.

Garrett Jonsson: But we don’t hear about the performer objectifying themselves.

Deanna Lynn: Yeah. It was just so frustrating. Um, well just on the being objectified from the other side, cause I continue to, to see stuff like just random comments on TV shows, even in classrooms on a, I took a class on human sexuality and stuff and they just continue to say things like, “Well, they’re not real. Like it’s not real.” And there’s a difference between it’s not real and they’re not real because like what you’re saying, like, no, that’s not real romance. That’s not, um, it it’s flat out violence most of the time. Um, but, but we are like, we are actual people. Um, could I have connected with that then? No. It was like, honestly, we were all just props and we literally use that term sometimes, “props”

Garrett Jonsson: Well, we sometimes use a term that is, people are not products. And that, that aligns with what we’re talking about. We also sometimes, or in the past have used a term or a phrase that says “people over pixels.” And I don’t know if I like that term anymore. And the reason why is because you, the performer are not pixels, right. It almost like objectifies the performer again, because we’re referring to that individual as a pixel when there really is a real person on the other side of the screen.

Deanna Lynn: Yeah. And like, we understand the language, right? Like we understand the connection that’s trying to be made. Um, but yeah, the more disconnected we become, it’s like, “Well, yeah, no wonder, it seems acceptable.”

Garrett Jonsson: What would you say to, to a consumer who feels okay watching pornography because the performers “choose to be there.”

Deanna Lynn: Yeah. I, I guess the, the hard part that I have with that statement is, um, you know, I’m, I’m 37 years old. I have a husband and two children I’ve been removed from the industry for about 10 years. And people are still watching all of my work. I was like, I don’t choose that anymore. I chose that when I was 18 and, uh, addicted to drugs and alcohol and traumatized and scared and hopeless. And I don’t choose that anymore, but I don’t get a choice. And so if I don’t choose that and a lot of my friends don’t choose that anymore. And everyone else is still choosing that based on that concept. It’s like, well, like a lot of us, like we don’t, we don’t choose for you to purchase our bodies anymore.

Garrett Jonsson: Right. Yeah. It’s almost like that…

Deanna Lynn: It’s a consequence. It’s not a choice. It’s a consequence now.

Garrett Jonsson: Yeah. And it could be argued that your consent, the consent that you gave back then, wasn’t true, enthusiastic consent because of the lack of options and where you were at at that time. And then that consent that you gave, even though it wasn’t true consent, enthusiastic consent, it’s it has no expiration date.

Deanna Lynn: Right.

Garrett Jonsson: It’s, it’s an interesting thing about the porn industry.

Deanna Lynn: Yeah. Like my husband and I were talking about that, we’re like, that doesn’t even happen in marriage. Like in marriage, like that, we’re not like there’s no expiration date. Like “I demand you to do this and demand to do that.” Like, like we enthusiastically get to choose when, where, and how to come together and in marriage, if we have that kind of consent and then like, like how I’m realistic is that.

Garrett Jonsson: Yeah. That’s interesting. Well, we’ve talked a lot about your experience now. We’ve talked a little bit more about consumer on the other side of the screen. And going back to one of the comments you made during this conversation, you said that sometimes consumers would come and visit you?

Deanna Lynn: Yes.

Garrett Jonsson: And I’m wondering if that’s a common thing for performers to have people that seek them out and come and try to find them?

Deanna Lynn: Yes. That’s happened before and after the industry, um, uh, before and after leaving. Yeah. Um, it is a really an unfortunate thing. I used to be very flattered by it. Now it freaks me out. But, um, I mean, I had one fan who had, um, connected with me online and, um, one day he just took his family savings account, wiped it out, drove across the country, um, to the company that I was working for. Uh, he stopped by my home state of Arizona, got me my favorite cookies. Um, and, and just stayed at the office that day. And I thought, “Well, he came all the way out here. I might as well sign his DVD collection.”, all of this stuff. And he, you know, they had, uh, he had sent gifts like all throughout the years and stuff. So it was like, you know, like, it really wasn’t a big moment for him, but I guess what he wasn’t expecting was that how very real of a person I was, because what happened is he ended up leaving with almost a savior mentality of like, “I’ve got to get her out of this.”

Um, like he connected with a part of me. So then he goes home he’s remorseful. He tells his wife everything. Um, she’s like, “You’ve got to stop this, uh, you know, stop the fan clubs.” like all this stuff. And, and, um, he ended up taking his life and I was left dealing with a grieving wife and, um, you know, and he had children and they’re trying to make sense of things. And so then she had kind of like, um, internet followed me for a while to make sure that I was “getting out” as I had promised and all of this stuff. And it was just a really tragic situation. And when, when my boss came in that day, you know, I was like, I didn’t know what to do with this information, because for so long, I was told that I was helping marriages, that I was helping families. I was helping people. And all of a sudden I realized, no, this is, this is actually taken people out. Like marriages are being destroyed or not happening in general. People are killing themselves. Like this is bad. And he was like, “Get used to it and get back to work.” And that’s what he said.

Garrett Jonsson: Wow, that’s a heavy thing.

Deanna Lynn: Yeah.

Garrett Jonsson: Hmm. What, what was your low of lows?

Deanna Lynn: You know, um, I don’t know why this was my love lows before anything else was, but as I was trying to, um, make a name for myself outside of being in the movies and I was going to these trade shows, um, you know, people would still take my picture, even though I wasn’t anymore. Like they would still take my picture, try to interview me stuff like that. And me, I was trying to make a name for myself as a woman in this business. And as someone who was not going to sleep her way around, I really wanted to learn to be an ethical business woman. Um, well, my low point was being in a suit at these trade shows, trying to make sales, without selling, you know, actual sex. Um, and one of the producers that had worked with me before, um, came from behind and grabbed my hair and pulled me down and said some things in my ear. And I was actually dating someone as well, um, who was there. And then after leaving there, someone had grabbed me from behind. And I just realized like, “If I don’t get out of this industry altogether, like I’ll never be able to be like Deanna and respected and all this stuff.” And, um, yeah.

Garrett Jonsson: Was it a common thing to experience sexual assault while in the industry?

Deanna Lynn: You know, I don’t know, because for so many of us, it was just a normal thing. So I don’t know at what point we actually feel assaulted. Uh, but because I was trying to be somebody, I was trying to be myself and I wasn’t in character.

Garrett Jonsson: Yeah.

Deanna Lynn: That was when I realized, like I’m truly being violated. Um, you know, normally we put up like, you know, we have body guards and we put our hands underneath their hands and we control like when and how they can touch us and stuff like that. But you know, you do that so many years with thousands of people doing that. It’s like, you, you don’t feel violated anymore, but because I wasn’t aide character, all of a sudden I recognized, “Oh my gosh, this has been happening to me for a long time.”

Garrett Jonsson: Wow.

Is, is that when you decided to leave the industry at that moment when you were assaulted?

Deanna Lynn: Yes, because the person I was dating, he actually happened to be a distributor in the industry. And, um, he was outraged as well. And it was like, um, he, he actually ended up becoming like my next addiction, like, and I became completely immersed in an, a very unhealthy relationship, but we knew that it was going to be bad for both of us if I stayed in. So one of the things that was hard for me is having somebody in my life who was still in the industry. And so he would come home and take out the things that he would see on me. Um, and that was, that was really difficult because anytime we would get in a fight, it was like, “Well, you did this here.” Or, um, you know, anytime I tried to leave the house, like I would wear like a sweatsuit and he would tell me that I was trying to get “attention” and this and that.

And I’m trying to figure out like, who am I in this world? Like, I’m starting martial arts and I’m going to a grocery store, which was like, exhilarating me, um, and all these things. But he would tell me that I was still out there whoring myself. And so that was really confusing messages to get. And so once I broke free from that relationship, um, it was a very hard place for me to be in because everywhere I went, it was like, um, “Do they, are they talking to me because they know her? Or are they actually like talking to me?”

Garrett Jonsson: You’re like in your own head about that?

Deanna Lynn: Yes. And a lot of times, like, I would be confirmed, like people will be like, “Hey, just want you to know, like, I, I am one of your biggest fans and, you know, we were all talking about it the other day.” And I’m like, oh man. Um, and so I’m like caught between like pride and shame because I’m like, “well, like I’m still kind of famous.” So I had, I had that to work out of myself. And then, um, I had this shame of like, “oh my gosh, like everybody still sees me as a sex object. How am I ever going to figure out how to relate to people?” Like when I would go out to dinner, I assumed that the husband and wife wanted to take me home afterwards. And I just, I had no idea how to interact with people or how to judge other people’s motives, because I hadn’t had people in my life who didn’t try to take me home.

Garrett Jonsson: Wow. What about career-wise you mentioned that you were, you started doing martial arts and you started enjoying some of those things that you enjoyed, the Ana Android. Um, what about career wise? Did you start to transition into a new career?

Deanna Lynn: Well, that was when I had opened up my own gym and, uh, starting to network myself in the community and it got really confusing from there because like I said, some people would bring up my past. Some people would hire me as their trainer because they knew who I was.

Garrett Jonsson: Oh.

Deanna Lynn: Um, and you know, things on the internet would coincide. And so it was like I was hiring social media managers to try to knock out stuff, um, that people were getting any time. Like I advertise my gym and wrote articles. Um, so that was very expensive time consuming. Um, but I just kept going and eventually I got healthy enough that I surrounded myself with healthy people and I could kind of weed some of that out, but, you know, with the past, as public as mine, um, it’s definitely, uh, affected other areas of my life, like school and work and stuff like that.

Garrett Jonsson: Right. How has your self esteem changed since leaving the industry?

Deanna Lynn: Um, I think, like I said before, just being in a place where it’s like, if I’m hungry, like I start when I’m hungry, I stopped when I’m full. Um, you know, I don’t have to be a certain size or a certain number. Like I can’t imagine being enslaved to a scale. Um, and the, you know, like I rarely wear makeup, you know, I do like to do it sometimes for fun, but it’s like I can just go out with my skin on and be comfortable in my own skin. And, um, all the wisdom that’s shining forth in my hair now. [laughter]

Garrett Jonsson: [laughter]

Deanna Lynn: uh, I get to wear it proudly.

Garrett Jonsson: It goes back to that phrase, “Just be.”

Deanna Lynn: Yeah, it really is. Um, and so that’s how I just, I’ll never forget being able to look in the mirror and just knowing who I was was truly beautiful and I just never felt that way before. And so I try to own it, um, in my, in my highs and my lows.

Garrett Jonsson: That’s awesome. Well, you’ve mentioned a lot of healthy things throughout this conversation. You mentioned EMDR, some therapy, you mentioned exercise. Uh, you mentioned, you know, going after things outside of, you know, career wise, what are you doing today as self-care? What, what practices are you incorporating into your life?

Deanna Lynn: So one of the things is, you know, I have a recovery group that I participate in and that I have been for about 15 years. And it helps me because, you know, I can’t perceive things correctly if I am clouded with this obsession to drink or use drugs. And so keeping things simple there and belonging to a community, um, where, you know, sometimes our best days is just not, you know, picking up a drink or drug or whatever you’re addicted to. So having a good accountability there, and then also being a support to others who are still working in the industry and are like, you know, they don’t really see a way out right now. Um, nor does anybody talk about what’s actually happening. And I can just say like, “Yes, I get it. Like, I know what you’re going through.” That’s not unreasonable to feel that way. Um, those are awful side effects and yes.

Garrett Jonsson: Well that must be a cathartic experience for a performer to see you and be like, “Oh, she doesn’t know what it’s like.”

Deanna Lynn: Yes. Yeah. It’s really helpful because that was what was hard about my journey was like I had five years sober by the time, you know, I was really trying to seek healing and I had so much trauma still in my life from the industry. And, and beforehand that I didn’t even have enough will to live anymore. And it was like, “Well, where do I go from here? Like, I don’t think I really qualify for a psychiatric institution. I don’t qualify for a drug rehab. Where do I go as a woman who was sold to one person after another to thousands of people, where do you go for that kind of damage?”

Garrett Jonsson: Right.

Deanna Lynn: Um, and luckily there, there was a place and now, now they have quite a few more homes.

Garrett Jonsson: That’s awesome. Well, what advice do you have for a person right now who is in the porn industry? And they are wanting to exit the porn industry, but are afraid of all of the unknowns, the advice for them.

Deanna Lynn: Yeah. Um, you know, so many times between the fans, the producers and other performers, I was told, um, like “Once you do this, you could never get another job.” And I’ve got to tell you like, I have had so fun exploring who I am, what I’m gifted in, how I can use those gifts to add to human flourishing and, and give back to the world. And so I just really, um, implore people to discover who you are outside of making porn, um, and, and really get to use, uh, utilize some of those things that, that you’re gifted in and discover yourself and your dreams. Like what were the dreams that you had before going into pornography? Um, or discover some new dreams. It’s, it’s a lot of fun and I just encourage you to take some of those steps and discover that.

Garrett Jonsson: That’s awesome. Thanks for sharing those, that hopeful side. And, um, I’m wondering if there’s anything that we haven’t talked about during this conversation that’s on your heart or mind, um, because I want, I want to leave you with the opportunity to have the last word during this conversation, Or did we cover it all?

Deanna Lynn: Um…

Garrett Jonsson: Or did we cover it all?

Deanna Lynn: We covered a good amount. There, there is something that I think that, uh, that’s coming to me right now, um, that I get hit with a lot is like, “Who’s going to love me after I did all of this?” And, um, and I’m so grateful to say like, like there, there are wonderful people out there. You know, my husband didn’t experience any of the things that I experienced and, um, and so like, to be able to meet him and him, not even like he did not once could picture me selling myself or using drugs or, you know, passed out in alleys. Um, and so I, I think the hope for me was, was getting to a place where like, no matter how recognizable my old life was like, I am I as a person I’m completely unrecognizable today. Um, and people will see that. And so there, there are really good people out there and we do deserve love in every form. Um, so I hope that’s helpful.

Garrett Jonsson: That’s a true statement. And they asked the question, I said, did we cover it all? And I realized after I asked that question, how ridiculous of a question that is, because it wouldn’t be impossible to cover it all, all of the topics and all of the things within this, uh, industry within an hour, during an hour long conversation.

Deanna Lynn: Yeah.

Garrett Jonsson: So I just want to acknowledge how ridiculous that that question was. [laughter]

Deanna Lynn: [laughter] No.

Garrett Jonsson: Is there anything that our listeners and us as an organization can do to support you?

Deanna Lynn: Um, you know, I, I did write two books, so we’d, uh, you know, I try to give them away for free all the time. My husband’s like “Deanna, groceries.” [laughter]

Garrett Jonsson: [laughter]

Deanna Lynn: Um, so yes, I do have two books on Amazon and one is Purchased: Leaving the Sex Trade, and it goes into a little bit of what life looked like for me. I, when I made the choice to go into that line of work, uh, ma to, to choose to sell my body. Um, and then the second book was Integrated: Living Beyond the Sex Trade and how to have, you know, how I got to achieve that, that full life that I have today. Um, leaving no part of myself behind. And so I encourage you to pick those up.

Garrett Jonsson: Okay. Thank you for sharing those and the fact that you wanted to give them away. I think it shows your true colors. Um, but now they have two 16 month old babies. You can’t give those away anymore. [laughter] Well, I want to get your book and read it as well and learn more from you. So I’ll make sure to pick that up.

Deanna Lynn: Thank you.

Garrett Jonsson: Um, well, no, thank you again. We want to say thanks because, uh, you took time out of your day to make this happen. And you’ve shared experiences that are really valuable and are gonna help other people.

Deanna Lynn: I hope so. Thanks for the opportunity.

Fight the New Drug Ad: Want to bring Fight the New Drug to your school, business, or community event? Lucky for you, we’re pros when it comes to live presentations. We provide information, and entertainment to inspire your audience to consider how pornography can impact themselves, their loved ones, and the world around them. We’re present the facts in an interactive, age-appropriate, and engaging way so your audience can walk away with more information on the harms of porn. To book a presentation, visit FTND.org/LIVE, That’s FTND.org/LIVE.

Garrett Jonsson: Thanks for joining us on this episode of Consider Before Consuming.

Consider Before Consuming is brought to you by Fight the New Drug.

Fight the New Drug is a non-religious and non-legislative organization that exists to provide individuals the opportunity to make an informed decision regarding pornography by raising awareness on its harmful effects using only science, facts, and personal accounts.

If you’d like to learn more about today’s guest and the conversation we had, you can check out the links included with this episode.

Again, big thanks to you for listening to this conversation. As you go about your day, we invite you to increase your self-awareness, look both ways, check your blind spots, and consider before consuming.