Garrett: What is up, people?! I’m Garrett Jonsson and you’re listening to Consider Before Consuming, a podcast brought to you by Fight the New Drug.

On this episode we sit down with Crissy Outlaw. Crissy is a strong individual, she’s been through A LOT in her life. One thing that experienced at a very young age, that NO child should have to experience, was sexual abuse. Crissy’s experience with childhood sexual abuse reinforces a stat that we found published on the US National Library of Medicine website, which states that 66 – 90% of women in the sex industry were sexually abused as a child (we’ve included a link with this episode showing that study).

During our conversation we also talk about how porn perpetuated false expectations in her life, the average duration required to film a scene in her experience, some the coercion she experienced while in the industry, why she decided to transition out after seven years, and what she’s up to today.

We hope you enjoy this episode of Consider Before Consuming.

Garrett: We feel fortunate to sit down with you and I guess, can you introduce yourself? First of all.

Crissy: I am Chrissy outlaw. I was in porn and the porn industry for seven years. Um, I got out in 2006 and it was because of my faith. Um, I quit. I didn’t go back. I didn’t take any more money. I had a website that made a lot of money and I just told them to keep the money and God took care of me and he put people in my life all along the way, um, to help me, help me get my first job and all that kind of stuff. Um,

Garrett: So you were in it for seven years and if you don’t mind me asking, how did you end up in that industry? Was it a sudden decision or something that transpired over a period of time?

Crissy: It is a period of time and in a bunch of circumstances. So as a child, I was sexually abused, which is very common, um, for sex workers. Um, I do work with women who’ve come out of the industry now. Um, and I don’t know anybody who wasn’t sexually abused as a child. Um,

Garrett: How many, if you just had to put a rough estimate, how many women do you know when you say that? None of them weren’t abused?

Crissy: I have how many, when I worked at treasures, I probably had talked to, mentored, maybe 20 women.

Garrett: Okay.

Crissy: Um, and then now on my own, I’ve and Houston does, we have a large like amount of women who come out and then go back in. So with that, I would say hundreds of ladies that I’ve worked with.

Garrett: And all of them have been sexually abused?

Crissy: Sexualy abused, yeah, as a child. I don’t know any that haven’t. Um, I was sexually abused when I was only four years old. And then after that it just seemed to be like a pattern, different people, um, different situations. And I felt like I, I was, I felt like something was wrong with me. Like, how do I keep drawing these people to me? I thought it was something I was doing. Um, my dad, um, is very religious and he said that, um, he taught me like to be a virgin until you get married. Um, but he was also an alcoholic, so he had rages. He, he wasn’t a good example, you know, of what a father should be. He was abusive to my mom. Um, but he also would preach the Bible. He would go to churches, I mean, not churches. He would go to bars drunk and get in fights because he’s sharing his face. So if that gives you an idea.

Garrett: That’s an interesting dynamic.

Crissy: Yeah. So, um, so growing up he said if anybody ever touched me that he would kill them. Um, you know,

Garrett: so just of shutting off the line of communication.

Crissy: Yes. Don’t ever do that, if you’re listening to this. Um, if I would have felt like he would have a conversation or cared, you know, how I was feeling, then maybe I would’ve said something, but instead I did. I was terrified when it first happened. And I think that’s why eventually I thought something was wrong with me because I keep attracting those people. And you know, as a child when you’re sexually abused, you just, um, you just kind of, well for me personally, I shut down. I wasn’t inside of my body. It felt like it was happening to somebody else. And I think that, um, that’s how I coped with it. And then, you know, it’s the same thing when I got into the sex industry. I learned the same techniques to cope with all of the sexual abuse or being in the industry.

Garrett: So you’ve helped a lot of people. Right?

Crissy: Yeah.

Garrett: And fast forwarding to today, from the time when you were young and then going through the sex industry, um, did you ever think that you’d be helping… maybe in the middle of your seven years at the middle point, did you ever think that you’d be helping other people?

Crissy: No, I thought it would be dead before I was 40 years old, actually before I was 30.

Garrett: We kind of laugh about that. Like, as you said that you kind of chuckled, but was that a sincere thought?

Crissy: Yeah, I was very suicidal. I had tried to kill myself many times. I didn’t think that my, what my life was like worth living. And I think, you know, part of, um, when I was in the industry, part of it was because I didn’t feel loved and then these people gave me attention. They thought I was pretty, you know, things like that that made that really,…

Garrett: That created like a false connection.

Crissy: Yes. A false sense of love. So I didn’t have a lot of, I didn’t feel a lot of love around me growing up. And then whenever I started talking to different photographers, I was actually working in an office at the time when, uh, when I got into porn. Um, well I never thought that I would go into the porn industry. I hated it. I didn’t want it. I, I, I guess the first time I saw, I always, um, a teenager and I was living with my dad. Um, we cause my parents split up and he kind of took off with us, my brother and I, and took us away from our mom and moved us to another city. And so that’s the first time I saw porn is it was under someone’s dad’s bed.

Garrett: So it was a magazine or?

Crissy: Yeah.

Garrett: Okay. I’m just curious because it’s changed so much.

Crissy: Yeah, there was no internet.

Garrett: Yeah.

Crissy: I was around before the Internet.

Garrett: That’s, yeah, so was I. That’s okay.

Crissy: Yeah, I remember looking at it and it was like interesting to me cause I have never seen an adult woman, how they look or any of that stuff. So it was interesting. And then I thought they were beautiful and I don’t know, I was just kind of, I don’t know, it’s like it’s a secret cause it’s hidden.

Garrett: That’s one of the interesting things about pornography because a lot of people aren’t having meaningful conversations about it. So then when a person is first exposed to pornography, they don’t know what to think. But inherently inside of all of us that can be attractive. And so you said you found this attractive but then you were kind of curious and it was a secret.

Crissy: Yeah, it was a secret. It was under his bed and I dunno know it was, it created curiosity like what is this then? I don’t know, it’s just kind of drawn by it. But at the same time I knew it was something I shouldn’t be looking at. So I didn’t do it again. But even if I think back, I can, I can picture what the woman that I was looking at looks like still. Um, and yet like porn with something I never thought I would do, I was engaged when I was 21. Um, and I moved in with my fiance and he brought porn into the house and I kept throwing it away and then he would get mad at me and then he would bring it in again. And so after a while I started questioning like, am I, I don’t have what he wants, I’m not enough? And so, um, from there I don’t have my feelings started changing for him because I, he wasn’t making me feel like he valued me. And so my feelings for him kind of totally changed. Like I stopped being in love with him and, um, so I had cosmetic surgery and before we broke up and then it wasn’t long after that that I left him and I said, um, one day I’m going to be one of those girls. And I didn’t really believe it.

Garrett: When you say when you say you said that you, you said that to him or just in your mind?

Crissy: No, I said it to him. I said one day I’m going to be one of those girls. And I really didn’t, I didn’t believe it. I didn’t want to be, I just, I, I guess it was just some kind of weird revenge thing at the moment. Um, but it’s just crazy cause just a few years later, I mean several years later I did become that girl. Never thought, never thought I would. I think, um, you know, the staff that, um, I was exposed to you after I broke up with him or actually even before I lived with him, my parents kicked me out when I was 18. After I graduated, I moved in with my first boyfriend. He also watched porn, so this was prior to that. Um, and he had like stations on the TV that he would watch. Um, yeah. So I kind of, I don’t know.

Garrett: You had that exposure where almost guy after guy was looking at, had a challenge with pornography.

Crissy: Yeah. And then, you know, I was very influenced by music. I was very influenced by radio talk shows, you know, hey, we have the Hooters girls here today. Stuff like that. Or Yeah.

Garrett: You saw, when you say that, was it like you saw them getting attention or, and you kind of…

Crissy: Yeah, it was like, like the radio station. Yeah. Okay. You would hear them all like laughing and the men clapping for them. And so all of this stuff is in my head all the time and I’m thinking,…

Garrett: You’re like, this is what guys want.

Crissy: This is what guys want. And they can’t control it. It’s just how they’re born.

Garrett: It’s a biological urge and it should be satisfied, basically?

Crissy: Yeah, and that’s what people told me.

Garrett: One thing I wanted to mention is you mentioned the, the cosmetic surgery and I just wanted to ask, in your opinion, if you fell like porn, um, perpetuated a false expectation for yourself and did that, was that a driver for the cosmetic surgery or not?

Crissy: Yeah, it was. I mean, I didn’t go enormous, but I didn’t feel adequate. Um,
Garrett: And I just want to point that out because there’s a lot of science in research showing that pornography perpetuates false expectations for both genders.

Crissy: Oh yeah. And after that relationship, after always engaged, I went to another one and went to another way. I like went somewhere every year or two years in lived with somebody new. All of them looked at porn. Eventually I just started dating guys who are already in the industry, either like a photographer and you know, a pornographer or somebody who was talent. They weren’t much different from the men I was already dating. Um, it was Kinda like, at some point being in porn, you realize that you can only kind of be with people who are in porn because nobody else will understand it. Um, even though I always had a hope that somebody would say, Crissy, you don’t have to do that. Let’s get you to start doing this or that. But even, you know, part of me going into the industry, it was a lack of love. And even back then all I really wanted was my mom to say, you’re better than that.

Garrett: You wanted true connection and love and…

Crissy: If she would have said, Crissy, you’re better at that. You don’t have to do this. And you know, built me up. I wouldn’t have gotten into that so easily, but I didn’t grow up with encouragement. That was something that never happened. If anything it was why can’t you be more like your friend Leanne? Or why can’t you be more than like this person? People whose personalities aren’t even like mine, outgoing, you know, I was not an outgoing person. I was very shy. So, you know, I never felt, I guess I never adequate to, you know, a lot of people. Um, I just, I think that the only place I was getting love and encouragement was from people who are in the industry who are trying to build me up so that I would fulfill whatever they wanted me to do. Um, so how did I, you know, do it like, I mean, the first time that I did a shoot, it was in a hotel with a photographer I’d never met, one light, and it was very, it’s like, like I say, I never wanted to be in the industry. Um, but this is a great photographer. But, so we got in the hotel and he started shooting and then he’s like, okay, good, I need you to take off this. And, and then I realized, oh my gosh, I’m sitting here doing this. I started shaking. I was scared, you know, but you know,

Garrett: A little bit of backstory, if you don’t mind me. So how did you get there?

Crissy: Well, the way that I am, I met him online. I had posted bathing suit pictures somewhere. And this is after I left the fiancé. Um, it took me a long time to to say yes to somebody to shoot something. But I was also on dating websites cause I didn’t know how to meet men. I didn’t go anywhere. I was an isolated person. Um, so all of these online ways, um, people start contacting me to do porn.

Garrett: And there would be direct with it? Like they’re like, “We want you to do pornography.” Or was it modeling?

Crissy: Yeah, sometimes they would say modeling. Um, but other times they would be like, can you do topless or can you do full nude but we’re not going to show, you know that, um, so the photographer, what happened is I went through a lot of bad relationships. I mean I was like a serial dater. I always had to have a man in my life or I felt like my life is useless. So sad.

Garrett: Well No, I mean I think a lot of our listeners can probably relate to that and that’s why we are so grateful that you’re, you’re sharing your experience and have shared your experience for so long. Because I think it’s something we all need, meaningful relationships, and unfortunately there’s just too many people that are experiencing abuse and sexual abuse and then they don’t have those meaningful relationships. And so we chase for it another ways. Yeah. Whether it’s like you were saying boyfriend after boyfriend or whether it’s connection with food or whatever it is. It’s like we’re finding these false connections and so I think we can relate to that. So you’re going boyfriend after boyfriend you were saying?

Crissy: Yeah, I always had to be with somebody. I mean I was kicked out when I was 18, after I graduated high school. Um, they, my mom and Stepdad said I need to find somewhere to live. I have until October. And so I found some way to live with a boy. And then that just started the pattern. Um,

Garrett: I kind of interrupted you. Um, the, um, you mentioned that you started shaking your first time in that, that first you were kind of hesitant to shoot with someone and then you did, you took that leap and,

Crissy: Well the photographer that I said yes to and was a really good photographer as far as like the quality of the photos and the caliber of the women he was shooting. Um, so I thought he’s talking to me about it, maybe I’m as good as they are. So, um, I had just had another break up and I was like in a very bad place, but I had this photographer saying, you know, I’ll shoot you and we’ll try to get your pictures in Playboy, cause he submits to them and he has gotten people published before. So I was like, okay, but let’s just do you know, boundary. I had um, not full nude. Um,

Garrett: So you went into this knowing not full nude?

Crissy: Yeah, I said yes. I say, well we can do like bathing suit or maybe like topless, but that’s as much as I’ll do. But yeah, the first time I was, I would say I can just like, it’s very strange though. My experience, I know what happened, but I didn’t feel like I was inside, like I dissociated, I can see myself from the photographer’s view looking down at myself instead of like really being in my head. I don’t know.

Garrett: Dissociation can be a coping mechanism; with all the people you’ve helped over the years. Do you see that as a common coping mechanism?

Crissy: It is. There’s a lot of different coping, coping mechanisms. Some turn to alcohol or drugs or pills or for me, I just dissociated. I learned that when I was a kid and that it worked. And so removing pieces of clothing and feeling like I’m inside of my body was too hard.

Garrett: Too challenging?

Crissy: Too challenging. So I had to disconnect. I just, I couldn’t do it any other way and I was shaking and I was standing there and I’m like thinking what am I doing? And then I’m like, okay, he shooting me for Playboy so I need to like just do my best job. But then when I think about, I think of myself looking down at myself, it’s thought. It’s like it didn’t happen to me in some ways.

Garrett: I think one thing that a lot of our listeners and people who have a challenge with pornography, I think one of the common justifications is that porn, I only watch porn that’s consensual, or the girl or a guy who I watch. They wanted to be there.

Crissy: Right.

Garrett: And I just wanted to ask you, cause you, we’ve talked about dissociation a lot. Did you appear to want to be there in the photographs and video?

Crissy: Oh yeah.

Garrett: So to the viewer, you wanted to be there?

Crissy: Yeah. In some ways I did what I did. I’m not saying porn, but the part that, there was a part that liked some of the things, I liked to be glamorous. I loved that I could go somewhere and they’d do my hair and then my makeup and they would have wardrobe and all this stuff. I’m just, this girl who doesn’t feel loved and all of these things. And then we would start the shoot and they’d put a fan on or whatever. Just started off. And then when I start taking stuff off is when I have to check out. But there’s something about being glamorous and I think that the porn industry sells that fantasy like that.

Garrett: And I just wanted to point that out because a lot of porn, it may look consensual and it may look like this female or male are having the time of their lives and that they’re in a perfect state. But it’s like in your experience, that wasn’t the case.

Crissy: No, I wasn’t myself. I wasn’t myself when I was doing those things. I couldn’t be. So yeah,…

Garrett: If you can. Um, so from the first time that you reached out to be photographed by this very good photographer, and how did it progress from there? Was it easier to do it the second time?

Crissy: Well, we shot two different days. Actually. I had no regard for my own life. I stayed in a hotel with him, um, as a complete stranger overnight. Like this wasn’t, uh, a new behavior for me. I have done that in my dating life. Um, but I stayed in the hotel with him. Nothing happened between us, but, um,…

Garrett: That is just kind of high risk behavior. Right?

Crissy: Yeah, very high risk. Um, and actually I didn’t care if something would happen to me, to me, like nobody else cared. But, um, so day two of shooting we shot, um, and in a different area, um, we were on the beach and there was sand dunes and we are like in this little section where nobody could see us and he started pushing my boundaries. Um, and I let him push me into doing other things that I didn’t want to do.

Garrett: My question for you is and I don’t, I think I might have asked you, but I don’t remember if you clarified, was, um, did you hit, did you sign a contract saying I’ll do this, this and this, but I won’t do this, this and this? And then he was trying to push boundaries or was there no contract just to kind of a verbal agreement and then he was just…

Crissy: No, I mean, we had a verbal agreement. Um, but part of me was like, well I already did these things, is it really a big deal? But after the shoot, when he sent me the pictures and I saw myself in those positions in different parts of my body that I’ve never seen before up close, it was terrifying. I mean I felt… like I told myself, oh my gosh, I’m never going to do this again. I’m going to throw all these pictures away and never, ever, ever do this. This is too far. So after that was my first shoot ever, two days. And then after that, I mean I was still working in the office so I would go back to my normal life. Um, and back then the internet just started. So after I would be done with my work, I would be online cause I…

Garrett: So it was in the mid nineties or so?

Crissy: Yeah, it was. Snd so I would go back to my job is very good at my job. I would get all my work done and I would be bored. And so I get on the Internet and you know, the older women there was like really older women in their sixties and they hated me. So they got me in trouble for being on the Internet.

Garrett: They didn’t know what it was, they were like ‘what is this thing?’

Crissy: Yeah, they were haters.

Garrett: That’s funny.

Crissy: They were like ‘why is she on the internet?’ We better go tell on her. But I was one of the younger people in the office about also one of the, um, I mean I was in line to be the next office manager. Um, I was,

Garrett: So you were doing your work, you were productive. You’re smart.

Crissy: I was doing everything. Yeah. And I mean, yeah, I could have been the office manager, but I think if I wasn’t searching for somebody to love me, my life would have turned out way different for sure.

Garrett: And so from there you said you were never going to do it again after the first shoot.

Crissy: Yeah, so I think maybe six months later, so I took another shoot and then this shoot was in Los Angeles and they’re gonna pay me a lot of money. And at this point I hadn’t worked with men. The first shoot, there were no men. This first shoot, was just me. And, um,

Garrett: The first photographer wasn’t a man?

Crissy: Oh, he was a man, but he didn’t shoot me with a man. It was just me by myself.

Garrett: Gotcha.

Crissy: Um, and this shoot was, would also be me by myself. I would go, I would shoot for three or four days and they would fly me to LA. And, um, they, I saw their pictures, they shoot in these big mansions and it was just so glamorous. So I’m like, okay, might as well, like, this person just broke my heart. I don’t have anything worth living for. So I took my shoot in LA and, um, the pictures were beautiful. Um, I did the same things I did in the first shoot at this shoot. Um, and the second day that I shot with them, they introduced me to this guy who is a manager. And so he, he wanted to sign me up. Um, but I wasn’t sure, but we, I ended up signing up with him, but not right away. Um, and so he would book me to do shoots and he would get 25%. Um, and you know, I kind of decided to go with him cause I heard so many horror stories from, uh, about other managers. And this manager was one of the “legit” ones. Like he was somebody who, you know, kind of, um, he didn’t want his girl to get her. He was very, he would scout out, you know, different, um,…

Garrett: Making sure that the other talent, I guess other actors or actresses were going to be stuff that fell in your would do list?

Crissy: Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

Garrett: He did his part to investigate?

Crissy: He did his best. He was a very nice person. I mean, I know a lot of people have a different experience. Mine, this is what mine was. He was a nice man. Um, to me at the time. I mean, looking back I can see where I was coerced into doing things.

Garrett: Um, well one thing I wanted to mention, you mentioned the word coursed and we talk about the harmful effects of pornography. We also talk about sexual exploitation and how pornography’s inseparably connected to sex trafficking. And you mentioned that you now see how there was coercion there?

Crissy: Yes.

Garrett: Um, I’m asking you the same question again, in this instance did you sign like, I will do this, I will do this. I will not do this. I will not do this in your contract?

Crissy: I don’t, I don’t remember. I don’t think it was that specific. I do know that they say that they can take the pictures, redistribute them, reuse them for forever.

Garrett: Okay.

Crissy: Sell them to other people. Um, I don’t remember if we had a checklist of what I would do, but I can’t tell you on my, um, my, um, manager’s website, there was a list of what I would do and what I wouldn’t do, and I wouldn’t work with men. I mean, that came later. But in the beginning I was very tame.

Garrett: Did you ever show up to a gig and your manager said, ‘look, like, I know this, I know you don’t want to do this, but if you don’t do it, we don’t get paid.’ Did that ever happen or?

Crissy: No, his, his, his tactics were way different.

Garrett: How did,… what were his tactics?

Crissy: Like he came across as nice guy, like Crissy, ‘If you don’t want to do that, you know, I won’t book you for that.’ So I might not thought that he cared about my wellbeing and the girls that he booked, he did. He wasn’t one of those managers that has everybody. He doesn’t book everybody. He’s, he was very particular with what the girl looks like and all that and the girls that he booked did less than I do most of them. Um, or that I did. Um,

Garrett: So was, he, it seems like he was very kind of a unique manager in the industry.

Crissy: He was.

Garrett: St what point, was there a point that you felt like he crossed the line?

Crissy: Well this is what happened. There was, um, okay. So for example, there was one shoot that I did, um, and it was just like, it was like one of the shoots that’s not glamorous. And so I usually didn’t take those shoots cause I see I had control. That’s not how it is now. But back then I could say no to something and no problem. Um, but this shoot was for a big company, but they’re kind of porn is, it was solo girl porn. Um, but their kind of porn. Um, their company was, you know, everybody wanted to work with them because it’s gonna look good for them. It’s going to be shot well. Well, it was kind of, um, it wasn’t really glamorous. Um, it was just like, well, it was just a guy with, uh, with a cam camera. With a,… recording me, um, video. So I got to that shoot and I was by myself. And then he started asking me if he could touch me and do other things with me. And I, I felt very vulnerable. Um, he’s like, ‘I’ll pay you more money.’ And, um, I, I let him do it. I didn’t know how to say no, and so I let him do those things. Um, and then when I left that shot, I told my manager, I’m like, ‘I will never ever shoot with them again.’ And I didn’t. So I think that he put, I think that he, I think my manager may have booked me with this person to, he works with all the time to see, to, to test my boundaries and I, because I found out later that there are girls that work with this man one on one and they do those things. So I think it was a test to see…

Garrett: It was a strategy.

Crissy: Yeah, very clever. Right? I told my manager ‘I will never shoot with him again. That was not okay.’

Garrett: And was your manager present for that shoot?

Crissy: No. It was just me and the photographer. Usually there is a person that does a microphone or does lighting or something like that. This was just a cam quarter in a guy and he, you know, it wasn’t even the same quality of the stuff that he usually shoots. So I think it was a setup to see what I would do, what I would let him do and for my manager to find out if he could book me for things like that going forward.

Garrett: And did you, you talk to your manager about it, you said, we’re not going to do that anymore.

Crissy: Yeah. He was like, “I can’t believe you did that.” But you know, later, years later I found out that that, that, that many of the girls, um, we had several girls from Czechoslovakia that were come to the U.S. and some of those girls would do shoots like that.

Garrett: They had similar experiences?

Crissy: Yeah.

Garrett: Interesting.

Crissy: Yeah.

Garrett: So did you continue with this manager throughout your entire time in pornography?

Crissy: Yeah, I stuck with him. I mean, at the time I felt, I don’t know, I didn’t feel, I felt like he was the best one.

Garrett: It sounds like you did a good job in the sense of uh, he was strategic.

Crissy: Yes.

Garrett: Very calculated it sounds like.

Crissy: Yeah.

Garrett: I can understand why he thought that.

Crissy: And um, one time I had a breakup with a boyfriend and I was living in, in Las Vegas for three and a half years when I was in the industry, out of the seven, I live with an abusive man. Um, and we actually worked together doing porn. Um, but I had broken up with him. My, my, um, manager said, “You can just come stay with me.” And yeah, he pushed the boundaries too.

Garrett: The manager, you know, that same manager that we talked about?

Crissy: Yup. He pushed the boundaries. Things happen that I didn’t want to happen. Um,

Garrett: Did you experience drug and alcohol use to cope with your challenges?

Crissy: It’s very common and those two women do. Um, yeah, most of the girls do that to get through the scene. Um, and they dissociate. Um, there was a time when, um, when I started using drugs and the people that I shot with were people I was getting high with and it was with, um, my boyfriend was the photographer. So, um, so there was sporadical drug use. Um, I’d never got addicted to any drugs- thank God. Um, I don’t know. I do know that…

Garrett: How can they appear?… Sorry, I interrupt you.

Crissy: Oh, go ahead.

Garrett: I was just gonna say, how can that happen? How can someone be under the influence of drugs and alcohol and dissociation and still appeared to be enjoying the scene?

Crissy: Well. Um, I think they look at it as a, as a job. And so while they know they kind of know what needs to be done. Well, another thing too is that like for me, if I wasn’t making the right kinds of noises, if I wasn’t making contact with the camera, they would tell you what to do. So they tell you as you’re shooting.

Garrett: Did they use pornography to show you what you should perform like or sound like?

Crissy: No. No.

Garrett: Okay.

Crissy: And I really didn’t watch it either.

Garrett: Okay.

Crissy: So I don’t know. I was kind of, I guess different from a lot of the girls, cause I didn’t know what I was doing. I was shy. So I would be like, ‘okay tell me what words and I’ll say it.’ So as they’re shooting, they cut it. So you see only the parts that they want you to see the part that part that’s appealing.

Garrett: So we look at, I don’t know in your circumstance, but let’s say the average, let’s say there’s a video that’s 30 minutes long, how long do you think it took to shoot that video?

Crissy: It can easily take two hours and if you’re working with somebody else, if you’re working with the guy and there’s issues, he’s having issues, um, it can take a lot longer. And so I remember it being on set…

Garrett: When you say “have an issue”, just to be medically corrected, it’s just maintaining an erection?

Crissy: Yes.

Garrett: Okay. Yeah, I just wanted to be clear about that because we talked about the false expectations that the porn industry perpetuates and that’s one of them for men.

Crissy: Yeah.

Garrett: It’s like we see this 30 minute scene and we think that it was just one scene and that is true intimacy. But as we’re learning,…

Crissy: No, as a matter of fact, um, the one shoot that I’m thinking of, I couldn’t get “the money shot.”, that’s what they call it. Um, after like three hours, maybe four hours, of trying to shoot the scene, but he couldn’t perform. He couldn’t finished, he couldn’t do “the money shot”, so we had to go back the next day and finish it.

Garrett: And so that took two days?

Crissy: Yeah. And I was working with my abusive boyfriend. Um, I’ve had videos where I start crying sometimes. Um, even if we weren’t, we didn’t do,… We didn’t do anything that they do today. But, um, you know, I had certain boundaries. I hate to say I have “boundaries” because they really weren’t. They were, they, they were, um, things that I thought would keep me safe. Um, but they didn’t because people wouldn’t manipulate me.

Garrett: Um, one thing I wanted to mention was I just listened to a podcast recently in this particular podcast, I won’t mention which podcast it was, but the, the person was investigating the porn industry and he talked to someone who used to be a producer and the producer said that porn hasn’t changed much. This person was from the 90s and early two thousands. Kind of before Internet, came along and really changed the porn industry. But in this podcast, this producer said that porn has always been aggressive and violent. But you just said that your, you said, I think if, I’m going to quote you almost correctly, you said, “we never did any of this stuff that they’re doing today.”

Crissy: No, we didn’t.

Garrett: So in your experience, pornography has changed?

Crissy: Yeah, I mean I was never really on sets with, where there were other men on set. Um, as part of like, I didn’t want to be around porn star guys. Um, but at times, I mean there was a few times where it happened and then I would tell my manager don’t book me.

Garrett: When you say “It happened.”, you mean like violent or aggressive or just things that we’re against your,…

Crissy: Yeah. Things that I didn’t feel comfortable with. So there was a one shoot in particular and where it’s shooting a scene that’s a giant house with marble, spirals, um, staircase, and there were other men preparing for their scene that was coming later, watching me with my boyfriend.

Garrett: Okay.

Crissy: I can’t, I don’t know, I just thought it was so uncomfortable. And then my boyfriend is having issues that time too. And then he got mad at me and then…

Garrett: It’s this weird cycle of like they need pornography to perform and then they’re making pornography, which is causing, um,…

Crissy: Erectile dysfunction.

Garrett: Yeah, erectile dysfunction. So it’s like they’re producing something that creates a problem and then they’re using the something to fix the problem and it’s this vicious cycle.

Crissy: Yeah. And then if they use some kind of drugs, then that can, cause you know, them not to be able to finish the shot too. So, but yeah.

Garrett: I think the whole point of the reason why I started asking these questions is because everything is calculated in pornography.

Crissy: Yeah. And, and you know, my boyfriend, the two times that I just spoke about who couldn’t finish the shot, I’m the one who got blamed. He was mad at me. He had beat me up, you know, afterwards, that was my fault. It was my fault that these guys were standing around doing their thing to get prepared for their scene, looking down at us. It was my fault.

Garrett: So there was physical…

Crissy: Seah, just saying like, um, like what you see isn’t always what’s going on.

Garrett: Totally.

Crissy: Yeah.

Garrett: That’s very true. Um, if you can, so what made you leave the industry?

Crissy: Um, well, you know, I grew up as, you know, more conservative. Um, when I was a little girl, I, I felt connected to God and I mean, I believe with all of my heart and there was no doubt that, that God existed. But then life happened. And as I got older, that childhood faith that I had, I didn’t know how, how that transitioned into adulthood. And then, you know, my parents split up and I had an abortion. My mom took me to get an abortion. There’s like so many things that happened in life that I didn’t know, I thought God didn’t exist anymore. And I got to that point. I mean, it took me a while to get there, but you know, and then going into the industry, I’m like, this is, I don’t know. I just felt like, where is God in all this and why would He let these things happen to me? Why are people, you know, sexually abusing me? I mean, and the, the, even the relationship that was abusive, I could’ve, I could have left, but I didn’t want to be by myself. It’s really sad.

Garrett: The thing is, is like when it comes to health, we have all these different aspects of health, mental, emotional, social and physical and financial. There are so many and every relationship is so complex. So I’m sure it’s easy for you to look back and be like, oh, I could have left. But…

Crissy: Yeah, but, but you know what, this guy, he, he knew what he was doing. He was taking all my, he was basically a pimp, to be honest with you. He took all of my money. Um, I never saved anything. He took it. He, he also, um, had worked in porn previously, um, different kinds of porn. Um, and he was kind of known in that genre. Um, so…

Garrett: We’re just grateful that you are doing so much good by sharing your experience? We honestly are grateful because a lot of people don’t get to hear this experience, a firsthand experience of what it’s like to be in the industry. And you’ve, I mean, you’ve mentioned so many amazing, I mean, I shouldn’t say amazing because they’re challenging experiences, but they’re, they’re your experiences. And I, I just admire that you’re doing so much good with those experiences. Um…

Crissy: Thank you. I figured like, um, you know, it was a big part of my life. If I can’t use it for something good than it was a waste.

Garrett: That makes sense. Um, you were kind of mentioning how you left the industry. Can you talk to that a little bit more?

Crissy: So, you know, I had a childhood faith, um, and then everything went wrong. Um, the last guy that I dated while I was in the industry and we don’t work together like the boyfriend before and I think we started dating right after like a year after that abusive relationship with over. So this guy, he was a mainstream, a movie, not like porn, movie star, um, movie star? He’s not really a star…

Garrett: He was just an actor?

Crissy: Actor. That’s the word, he was an actor.

Garrett: He did mainstream stuff?

Crissy: Yes. He was a stunt man, actor, photographer, a did everything cause in LA, that’s what you’d have to do. You can’t just be an actor.

Garrett: Yeah. You got to do anything they ask, run for coffee or whatever it is.

Crissy: Yeah. So he seemed very normal. We were together for a year. Um, he had his son, so I always wanted to be a mom and I as well. I liked that even though it took his kid a long time to tell me he loved me, but you know, as I get instant family and he was nice and he wasn’t abusing me. Um, but I always thought this guy was the guy who was going to rescue me. He’s going to tell me, Crissy, we all need to do this. Like, why don’t we do this or that together? And that didn’t happen. He actually started shooting the stuff for my websites. He became a part of it. And when he couldn’t, we lived together, but when he couldn’t make his bills, I would reach out to other people, um, who needed a photographer, get him some, you know, business with these other, um, what am I trying to say?

Garrett: Like you’d just make connections for him. Networking?

Crissy: Yeah. I would connect him with people who would hire him to be a photographer. And so, and that was horrible. I mean, it was, it’s the worst feeling when you’ve worked for seven years to become everything that a man would want in the hope of gaining love. And then when he starts shooting other women, his friends would come over and they would go in the office and he was showing him all of these pictures of these beautiful women.

Garrett: And then the cycle almost started over?

Crissy: It’s not just me, it’s not just photos of me of at these other women. I knew we was attracted. And so, um, so yeah, so, um, you know, we were together all the time. I knew if I was with him, he wasn’t gonna mess up and do something because I’m there and we literally, every day we go out to eat breakfast and we would go hiking and then we would go to the dog park. Like we had our routines, but there was this right before we broke up. And the reason why we broke up, um, he had gone out of town without me to work on if film mainstream film, not porn. And he called me one night really, really late and I heard music in the background. And I knew he was at a strip club. He denied it. He was drunk. He denied it and said, no, I met Pf Chang’s and it’s like two o’clock in the morning. I’m like, ‘Yeah, whatever.’ I didn’t believe it, but it let me, it created this feeling inside me of…

Garrett: Betrayal. Trauma, right?

Crissy: Yeah.

Garrett: Or am I putting words in your mouth?

Crissy: No, it did. I felt, because even before he left, I said, don’t go to a strip club. Like that’s just so random. But I did and that’s what he did. And I felt, I just felt that, um, it was like, he as if he cheated on me and he lied about it, he then lied on his son’s life. So I knew that. And that night I just like kind of hung up the phone, sat on the kitchen floor crying. And that’s when I, I what changed my life? I prayed to God and I said, if you’re real, you know, I need to know, like, everything I know about love is twisted and perverted and I don’t think I’ve ever been loved before. And then the next day, um, my boyfriend admitted that he did go to a strip club. And I know it sounds silly because I was doing porn. So I guess in some ways I can relate to those women who don’t look at porn and don’t want their husbands looking at porn or boyfriends or whatever. Um, I can totally relate to that. Cause I was hurt even when I was in the industry, I was still that woman. I did not like it. So, you know, he, I felt like he betrayed me. I felt like he cheated on me. Um, so the next day I had I said this prayer. Um, well you know what? So what I realized in the moment before when I hung up the phone before I started praying is that even though I had worked so hard to be “that girl” in quotes, um, I still wasn’t enough for a man that I thought I was going to marry. And that was devastating to me because, you know, I…

Garrett: It kind of came full circle because at the very beginning of our conversation you talked about how you left your boyfriend cause he was looking at pornography and it created some false expectations for you and you’re like, I”’m going to become one of these women.”

Crissy: Yeah.

Garrett: And then you became that and then you still felt like you weren’t,

Crissy: It still wasn’t enough to keep, you know, just into me it was, it was terrible. Like I was the fantasy, the fantasy that they are looking for. So why am I not enough? I couldn’t understand it. I always went in the most more popular people at that time and I still wasn’t enough for him. He still wanting you to go look at other people. He still wanted to go to the strip club. And it was devastating to me, you know, becoming the fantasy that, that I thought I needed to be and still not being enough.

Garrett: So what happened after that?

Crissy: So what happened, I went on to where he was shooting, if it’s in a different state. So I had to travel there. Um, and when I got there that the, um, the guy who is the producer’s son, we, we had dinner with him and he’s like, so like Crissy, I don’t know what your problem is. Why, why is it not okay, you’re working in porn. Um, why can’t he go look at other women? Sometimes a guy doesn’t want a Brunette, they want a blonde or they want, you know, does different ethnicities and um,…

Garrett: This guy is just talking objectification.

Crissy: Yeah, exactly. I was like, my blood was boiling. I was so mad and I’m shy, but when I have something to say, I will say it. Um, you know, and this man’s married, he has like four kids and I’m thinking he’s cheating on his wife and he doesn’t see anything wrong with it. He’s trying to convince me. And so,

Garrett: well, one of the things that happens in pornography is objectification. It takes a person from a person with thoughts, feelings, and emotions to a commodity. So it’s like he was kind of talking to you like, maybe we don’t want this or this, but we want this.

Crissy: Yeah. Yeah.

Garrett: It’s like just a commodity. It’s like, I don’t want a blue shirt or a red shirt, I want to green.

Crissy: Yeah. And maybe one day he might want something totally opposite. So he couldn’t understand either how a porn star can be complaining about her boyfriend going into the strip club, which I know people don’t get that. But I think it just goes back to my beliefs, you know, growing up and how that, how my ideal relationship wouldn’t be like that. As a matter of fact, I thought the guy would save me.

Garrett: And one thing that’s common, and you probably know this because of how many people you’ve helped with their challenges is attachment disorder, right? Because that’s a kind of what you are missing is like this true meaningful connection, true meaningful relationships in your life and you’re kind of chasing that forever.

Crissy: Yeah. It was always in these relationships where I might live with them, we might shoot together, but I wasn’t totally connected. Like, like I’m married now. I have never connected with any of these men. How many men? And I could only even know I’ve lived with so many, um, never connected to them, like I do my husband.

Garrett: So there was sex but zero intimacy it sounds like, right?

Crissy: Yeah.

Garrett: Like no true, meaningful relationships.

Crissy: Yeah.

Garrett: Well, how did you get to that point? Because that’s a hopeful story. The fact that you came from that and then you have all these…

Crissy: So I went to the, where he was shooting. We had that little argument. We had a fight. Well, a really bad argument. Me and the director’s son, I made him really mad. He kicked us out of the room.

Garrett: Good for you.

Crissy: Like I’m the shy one, but I couldn’t, I was so angry. Um, that, you know, whatever, I get angry sometimes. They just, I can’t control what I say, yeah, my boyfriend was really mad at me, like, ‘you’re going to get me kicked off of this project.’ I’m like, ‘I don’t care. You need to go home.’ Anyway. Um, so, um, where was I going with that? Oh, what happened? So one day, um, he introduced me to everybody on the set. He’s like, “Come out to the sat with me.” And so I went there with him and he introduced me to people. And, um, you know, we hung out. It was mostly guys on this set. I don’t really remember seeing any women, but, um, there was a moment when he was being shot and one of the guys, he introduced me to start talking to me and he’s like, “So Crissy, what do you do for a living?” And that’s not something I talked about in real life. Um, so I was just like, “oh, I’m a model.” And he’s like, “Well, what kind of model?” And I was just like, oh, you know, like men’s catalogs and car magazines. And I could tell that he wasn’t quite believing me cause he kept, you know, what else? What else?

Garrett: Yeah, like he kept digging? Like he was looking for a specific answer, maybe?

Crissy: He was, and I started realizing that he wanted, you know, he knew something. So, and like I said, we didn’t tell people in our real life, except for my boyfriend’s, you know, a handful of friends that he would email photos to. So eventually I just said, oh, “I do porn.” And he’s like “Crissy, I already knew that.” he said before he even got here, and this was humiliating to me, uh, because we didn’t share this. He said, before you even got here, your boyfriend has been talking about you and showing your pictures to everybody. And it was weird because even though I’d been naked before, I felt so much more exposed at that moment, knowing everybody has seen, you know, everything on me about me and that my boyfriend is treating me like he doesn’t really love me because what my ideal of what love was wasn’t that, um, my idea, you know, when the right guy comes along is that he won’t look at my porn. He, he won’t have any interest in it. And so, you know, so new to it, it was validation that, yeah, he’s not going to be her husband. And so I felt humiliated and um, he said, uh, “You know, Crissy, you know, you don’t have to live that kind of life and you can be free from it.” And you know, he gave me a little bit of hope.

Garrett: Oh, he was encouraging you?

Crissy: Yeah.

Garrett: Oh cool.

Crissy: He’s giving me some hope. And, and then he mentioned like, “Do you believe in God?” And now I said “Yes.” So I knew that that was my sign. That guy was real and he heard me. He was listening to me and he was there. And, um, so we went outside. He asked me if he could pray with me, like, yeah. Um, so we outside, we prayed and from that moment I left the industry. I didn’t do any more shoots. It’s just, it’s not, it’s really not worth the money. And I’m telling you, the women that I work with who also know that that’s why they’re leaving the industry. And you know what, the women who are in it, who are saying they like it is because they’re selling it. They have to say that.

Garrett: Yeah. I listened to a podcast recently and the person was in the industry and she was saying that on social media, she can’t be herself on social media because it’s all part of the act. And people don’t want to know your true emotions when they’re just trying to objectify.

Crissy: Yeah. You’ll kill, kill the fantasy. And like, um, you know, a lot of times they do like behind the scenes video and they’ll be like, Hey, Crissy, tell us what you love most about you know, this shoot or whatever. And we just tell you what you want to hear because we’re selling the fantasy.

Garrett: There’s a reason why they call them actors and actresses.

Crissy: Yes.

Garrett: Um, well Crissy, you are an example of a person that has gone through so much. You didn’t have the connection that you should have, that you deserved to have as a young child. And, today you’re married?

Crissy: Yeah, I’ve been married for six years and that’s it. And I run a support group with women who have come out of the sex industry. Um, and, and I travel and share my story.

Crissy: I don’t even know. I’ve gone, I’ve even traveled, you know, as far as South Africa to share my story.
Garrett: Um, I, uh, speak for myself and all of our listeners when you say, thanks for sitting down with us today and having this meaningful conversation.

Crissy: Thank you for having me.

Garrett: Thanks for joining us on this episode of Consider Before Consuming. Consider Before Consuming is brought to you by Fight the New Drug. Fight the New Drug is a non-religious, non-legislative organization that exists to provide individuals the opportunity to make an informed decision regarding pornography by raising awareness on it’s harmful effects using only science, facts, and personal accounts.