Garrett: what is up people? I’m Garrett Jonsson and you’re listening to Consider Before Consuming, a podcast by Fight the New Drug. On today’s episode, we sit down with Lamar Odom. He was the number one recruit coming out of high school, Played College Ball at Rhode Island, went on to play for the Lakers, won two NBA titles, a sixth man award and and played in the Olympics. He has also been on multiple successful reality TV shows.

Uh, more recently he authored a book darkness to light and just announced that he’s going to appear on dancing with the stars. He’s a father and athletes and Olympian and author and entrepreneur and just simply an inspiration to so many with everything else on Lamar’s plate, he recently announced that he’s giving up pornography in order to build a healthier lifestyle for himself and his future and that’s where we come in. We were able to meet up with Lamar in Manhattan, grab a bite to eat and sit down with them to discuss some of the harmful effects of pornography. During our conversation, we talked about how pornography has negatively impacted him personally, what he’s doing to address the challenge now and so much more. So we hope you enjoyed this episode, of Consider Before Consuming.

We want to welcome to the podcast, Lamar Odom. Lamar,…

Lamar: What’s up, bro?

Garrett: What’s up, man? How are you?

Lamar: I’m alright? How are you doing?

Garrett: Doing Great. We, uh, we’re excited to be here with you today Lamar.

Lamar: Thank you.

Garrett: Where are we at? We’re in…

Lamar: New York City.

Garrett: New York City.

Lamar: Manhattan.

Garrett: Pretty close to your hometown?

Lamar: Yearh, we’re close to Queens, about a half an hour away, 45 minutes. Um, maybe an hour depending on traffic.

Garrett: It was a pretty cool, we just got to go grab a bite with Lamar and we went to Ray’s pizza.

Lamar: Yeah, world’s famous race.

Garrett: Yeah. Famous Ray’s. It was pretty cool to see the people of New York and their love for you, man.

Lamar: Yeah, this is my hometown.

Garrett: For sure.

Lamar: Hopefully I’ve, I’m serving them proud as far as basketball and life is concerned.

Garrett: Basketball and life.

Lamar: Yeah.

Garrett: And uh, you’re doing that man.

Lamar: Yeah, I’m just trying to, um, I guess I’m probably 40 on Nov. 6th and I guess I’m just trying to, um, put out the best me.

Garrett: Yeah.

Lamar: But what’s crazy is that like, I know my life is a blessing because it’s like been cinematic.

Garrett: For sure, man.

Lamar: You know what I mean?

Garrett: I listened to your book and there,.. I was thinking of all the adjectives, all the words that could describe your life and there’s just, there’s so many words that can describe your life, but the word that just is the opposite of your life is a dull, like no, there’s never a dull moment, man.

Lamar: No. There’s never a dull moment. Especially I got this like spitfire girlfriend right now.

Garrett: Shout out to Sabrina Parr.

Lamar: Yeah, there’s never a dull moment.

Garrett: When did that start for you? At what age did that begin?

Lamar: I would probably say it maybe around 15 or 16.

Garrett: Yeah.

Lamar: Yeah.

Garrett: So you’re going on in the 25 years of just nonstop?

Lamar: Yeah.

Garrett: That’s cool, man.

Lamar: Yeah. Energetic life.

Garrett: Well, the name of our podcast is Consider Before Consuming and the goal of the podcast is to put forth information that people can consider before consuming pornography. And the goal is that they can make a more educated decision.

Lamar: Yeah.

Garrett: And um, and so we appreciate you being here.

Lamar: No problem.

Garrett: I mean you have millions of followers across your social media platforms.

Lamar: Yeah.

Garrett: so, and obviously people know who you are, but there’s a great probability that some of our listeners may not know who Lamar Odom is.

Lamar: Yeah.

Garrett: And so just to give long Lamar Odom some credit where credit is due, to name some of your accolades. Um, Lamar was the number one recruit out of out of New York.

Lamar: Yeah. I was the no top player in the country in 1997.

Garrett: And went on to play for,… you, you were drafted by the Clippers…

Lamar: LA Clippers.

Garrett: And then went on to play for …

Lamar: The Miami Heat after that.

Garrett: Miami Heat and then the Lakers. You won two NBA titles.

Lamar: Yeah, two NBA titles and the NBA sixth man of the year award- which for me that was probably my most, um, memorable professional moment.

Garrett: Like the one that you’re most proud of?

Lamar: Yeah, and I tell you the reason why. Just because, um, uh, I, um, I learned a great deal from Kobe Bryant and uh, winning that award was like my salute to him.

Garrett: For sure.

Lamar: Cause he kinda told, taught me how to be a selfish but healthy, the healthy selfish.

Garrett: I like that. The healthy selfish.

Lamar: Yeah. At that point in my life I was selfish, but for all the right reasons and that that year was extremely draining. Cause of course I was playing basketball on a high level, but I was shooting a reality show with my ex wife.

Garrett: Right. So that combination of shooting that reality TV show…

Lamar: and playing on a high level like that because anyways shoots a reality TV show, you know, without having a second job as being an NBA player, uh, you know, shit can kill you.

Garrett: You are at the highest level in two different industries.

Lamar: Yeah.

Garrett: Which is kind of crazy.

Lamar: Yeah. I don’t ever think that’ll probably ever be done again. So that was a proud moment.

Garrett: So going back to the healthy selfish…

Lamar: Yeah.

Garrett: Can you describe that a little bit more?

Lamar: We’ll, it was just time for me to, you know, to put my self forward for them betterment of the team.

Garrett: It’s almost like, and I’m sure you’ve heard this before, but like the oxygen mask example.

Lamar: Yeah, that’s a prime example.

Garrett: Yeah. You gotta put yours on first…

Lamar: …before you help somebody else out.

Garrett: I like that. How has that played out in other areas of your life? Obviously it helped you win the sixth man award in 2011.

Lamar: Yeah.

Garrett: Where has that characteristic or attribute?

Lamar: Well, I’ve just feel like everything that I’m doing. Like if I don’t put myself first, I love myself first. A lot of this shit won’t work.

Garrett: 100%. I like that. Well, taking a few steps back, Lamar, um, Consider Before Consuming is brought to you by Fight the New Drug and Fight the New Drug, it’s a non-religious non-legislative non-profit and the sole purpose is to provide people the opportunity to make an educated decision regarding pornography and using science, facts, and personal accounts. And we’re, we’re all about that freedom of choice.

Lamar: Yeah.

Garrett: So once again, we want people to make an educated decision.

Lamar: Yeah. I mean, I could just imagine how many, uh, like gun girls just get tortured by porn.

Garrett: Well, yeah, there was a study done…

Lamar: And I have a beautiful daughter.

Garrett: Destiny.
Lamar: Yeah. I couldn’t imagine. I couldn’t imagine like not being able to protect her when it comes down and things like that. So even given her information would be helpful to me.

Garrett: 100%.

Lamar: When I think about point, I supposed to go to this human trafficking event and I don’t know if they’re linked, but if they’re not linked, I would be surprised.

Garrett: Yeah, well it’s interesting that you’d say that because on that door in our hotel room.

Lamar: Yeah.

Garrett: There’s a sign that says something to the effect of like, if you are a victim of human trafficking, you can reach out to this place.

Lamar: Yeah.

Garrett: So even here, we’re sitting here in New York on and we’re in a hotel room and there’s awareness about the harmful effects of sex trafficking…

Lamar: Yeah.

Garrett: … to build awareness. And you said, well, you don’t know if there’s connection between sex trafficking and pornography. There most definitely is.

Lamar: 100%.

Garrett: 100%. I had the opportunity to speak with this woman from DC and her name’s Tina Frundt and she works with troubled youth who are transitioning out of sex trafficking out of the life of sex trafficking. And it’s all, it’s a transition of mindset. And she says that every person that she’s worked with has had pornography taken of them. So…

Lamar: Have shot a porno movie?

Garrett: Yeah. Well…

Lamar: Or didn’t even know they were showing it?

Garrett: In some cases they didn’t know. In some cases they did know. But where does that porn end up?

Lamar: Pornhub probably.

Garrett: Right, free Tube sites. To answer your question, the sex trafficking industry and the pornographic industry are inseparably connected.

Lamar: Hmm. That’s too bad.

Garrett: Go into your experience. Lamar, do you remember the first time you were exposed to pornography?

Lamar: I was trying to think about that when I walk through here. I’ve been through a lot. Um, when it comes to, um, my cognitive health because of the coma.

Garrett: Right.

Lamar: Um, I can’t really remember what, I can’t remember it was like at 13 or 14 years old and my grandmother, even though I was growing at that time, I was always sleeping.

Garrett: Your body needed that…

Lamar: Yeah, but if you’re playing basketball all day and you beating off, you know what I’m saying?

Garrett: For sure.

Lamar: And uh, so she take me to the doctor and the doctor asks my grandmother to leave the room, that he wanted to have a few words with me and he said, “I know you’re tall but do you masturbate a lot?” I’m like, oh god.

Garrett: It’s interesting that he brought that up.

Lamar: Yeah. He caught me, I guess. And I’m like, yeah. And he said, you just got to cut it down some, you know what I mean?

Garrett: So what, what age were you when that happened?

Lamar: Probably, like 14.

Garrett: Okay.

Lamar: 14 so I’m, I’m trying to think back. At 14 I don’t even know where I was getting tapes from or…

Garrett: Right.

Lamar: Or how I was receiving this information. I maybe just had one and kept it and watched three or four different scenes over and over. Yeah. But it was prevalent in my life.

Garrett: So at 14, if you were born in 79, that puts you like mid nineties.

Lamar: Yeah. Right?

Lamar: Yeah.

Garrett: So, yeah. You’re right. Like the Internet hadn’t…

Lamar: Popped yet.

Garrett: Yeah. Um, you’ve done, so going back to your book, you’ve talked a lot about cocaine, especially cocaine and alcohol consumption. And I think it’s interesting, I wanted to get your take because putting yourself back to where you experienced cocaine for the first time and that high and rush you felt, and then it seemed like from your book you were always chasing that original high.

Lamar: Yeah, I think that’s like, um, with sex or anything that we do like that, that first taste we get of it and that’s what we’re really chasing. Or any drug, that first high you get from marijuana that you’ve never gone feel again. Or that you get from crack or coke that you never going to get again, I think… especially if you have an addictive gene or personality like I do.

Garrett: Yeah.

Lamar: Very addictive.

Garrett: So one question I have, cause you threw out there sex and you throw out there cocaine, you threw out crack. So there’s two different lines here. There’s the substance abuse and then like a behavioral addiction.

Lamar: But they’re all addictions. A disease is a disease.

Garrett: So in your mind, according to kind of your definition, what is addiction?

Lamar: Disease, disease of the brain.

Garrett: Yeah. That’s a simple definition and a very accurate definition. In your book, you talk a lot about addiction to sex and addiction to cocaine. And then just recently you’ve talked about stopping the consumption of pornography.

Lamar: Yeah.

Garrett: How did that come about?

Lamar: Um, Miss Parr. You know, so we trying to build a healthy and happy sex life and it got to the point where I’m,… you know, I wasn’t, um, reaching my fullest potential as far as orgasm.

Garrett: Right.

Lamar: And then she kind of like just put one and two together and she was like, “That’s because you spend too much time with yourself.”

Garrett: Interesting.

Lamar: You know? So I got this beautiful,…

Garrett: How long have you guys been dating?

Lamar: Um, couple of months now.

Garrett: Okay.

Lamar: It’s been intense. She has a very intense personality.

Garrett: That’s cool.

Lamar: Yeah.

Garrett: Yeah. She seems like a firecracker.

Lamar: Yeah, she is.

Garrett: She seems cool. And so she’s the one who identified it that there might be a correlation between performance.

Lamar: And I’m thinking like damn, like all these women, even the last 10 years and they all been kind of like just forced to kind like just go along with it.

Garrett: Right.

Lamar: And uh, I don’t want to, uh,..

Garrett: well so I can, I can relate Lamar because I’m married and I used to watch a lot of pornography and it put forth false expectations for me and it put forth the false expectations for my wife.

Lamar: Yeah. Because like, uh, me and Eli just went to a SAA meeting and he had one of his friends pull me and Sabrina over to the side and he just told us that, um, “A woman can compete with porn? She just can’t out do it”

Garrett: Because it’s endless novelty.

Lamar: Yeah. And then with porn, you know, you gotta watch yourself because I think subconsciously you want to act out those situations.

Garrett: For sure. Because, you mean, kind of re-enact what you’re seeing.

Lamar: Yeah. So whether it’s guy, two dudes, two and a girl, transsexual,…

Garrett: Right.

Lamar: Um, you kinda try to climb those mountains.

Garrett: Well there is a doctor out there who talks a lot about neuroplasticity, like the fact that our brains are always changing.

Lamar: Yeah.

Garrett: His name is Dr. Norman Doidge in one thing that he says is that our sexual templates are molded by our culture, by our, our experiences, by our biology. And so like what you’re saying, like pornography according to science. Yeah. It’s molding your sexual template.

Lamar: Yeah, because I had those nights. You know… especially if getting high.

Garrett: The combination.

Lamar: Then nothing is off limits.

Garrett: Yeah. I mean, yeah, the, the novelty is literally endless. So going back to the question of you chasing the, the original high with cocaine and that process is often more and more often and a more hardcore version just to get the same level of intensity. So like if you’re chasing that original high with cocaine,

Lamar: Yeah.

Garrett: You needed to have more cocaine, more often.

Lamar: Yeah, and more porn. Porn I would do it sometimes, some days where I was just like, especially if it was good coke, I was, I could sit there like, can I say anything on this?

Garrett: Yeah.

Lamar: I could sit there with like half a hard on. And just like, it’s like, it’s so crazy. Like I’m laughing but like laughing I guess out of embarrassment, just like can’t believe I was living like that.

Garrett: Well that’s why your book is so powerful is because you were real.

Lamar: Yeah.

Garrett: And there’s a lot of people out there, definitely not in your situation because you’re unique, but a lot of people out there struggling with substance abuse addiction and with behavioral addictions.

Lamar: Yeah.

Garrett: And so for them to read your book for the, for someone like you, with your platform and your reach to come out with this level of vulnerability is powerful. It’s inspiring. It’s changing the conversation.

Lamar: Yeah. When you wrote your book was not the goal to change the conversation or what was the goal?

Lamar: Um, just a free therapy session.

Garrett: For sure. Just a $16, one time fee…

Lamar: Yeah, you know what I mean? Um, too much time…

Garrett: Oh you mean a therapy session for yourself?

Lamar: For myself, yeah.

Garrett: It was a therapy session for me too.

Lamar: Yeah, but you know, I guess that’s the most, um, the most thing I take away from the book is that I think my transparency has, um, people enjoyed it, like you said. They come up to me like “Lamar, thanks man. Your book has been inspiring” and I’m like I just told the truth about myself. That was it.

Garrett: Tell him the truth, man. There’s power in that.

Lamar: Yeah.

Garrett: Just like your homie Eli over here when we share our hardships, my favorite quote from Eli’s talk, Ted talk, we’ll link that as well to this episode. Um, my favorite quote is that when we share our hardships, we allow others and ourselves to move past shame and an into healing.

Lamar: Yeah.

Garrett: Has it done that for you? Has Your book, has that therapy worked for you? Has it moved and has it helped you move past shame?

Lamar: Yeah, I think cause I took the power away from everyone. Especially, you know, I’m talking about the cocaine use or things that I would have to hide, hide from, um, because who I am as a person, things that people won’t want to admit. So it Kinda took the power away from having those bad stories written about myself. It’s like ‘here I am’… like raising my hand.

Garrett: It’s like that scene, have you seen the movie 8 Mile with Eminem? And he jumps up on stage and he raps about all his insecurity and all the his truths.

Lamar: It’s the same thing.

Garrett: And he wins the battle. That’s interesting. Um,

Lamar: The two went hand in hand with me with drugs.

Garrett: Yeah.

Lamar: Yeah. I didn’t even need a woman around me; if she did coke and then wanted to hang out then the more the merrier.

Garrett: Right.

Lamar: But if not, it didn’t matter.

Garrett: The one that you’ve talked about recently is porn. It seems like that was kind of the last one that you’ve given up. Is that right or am I wrong?

Lamar: Yeah, because I can really see and really fully understand how it hurts relationships. And that’s why when you said that that tee shirt that you showed me, porn hurts love,

Garrett: Yeah.

Lamar: it kind of hit me like…

Garrett: Yeah, it’s a conversation starter for sure. And the intention behind that shirt is,… well the science and research is showing that all forms of pornography can disrupt true connection.

Lamar: Yeah.

Garrett: At some level, um, for you, you mentioned that it was affecting your ability to perform or…

Lamar: At a high level.

Garrett: At a high level.

Lamar: I tried to perform at a high level, no matter what I’m doing. You know what I’m saying? So, and then the woman I’m with, I don’t want her to let her down and you know, hurt her herself esteem… thinking of how stuff ain’t what it really is.

Garrett: And you think porn influenced that?

Lamar: 100%.

Garrett: 100%? So when you…

Lamar: If you jerking off three times a day, you probably not going to have the right energy for your woman that you need. You know what I’m saying?

Garrett: So it’s been a couple months now since you’ve attempted to stop watching porn?

Lamar: I’ve been slowing down gradually and gradually, gradually. And it’s crazy cause I’m almost 40 years old and I said I’ve been slowing down gradually and it just kinda hit me like we are the company we keep.

Garrett: Yeah. It’s like Aristotle said, “we are what we do repeatedly”

Lamar: Yeah, if I didn’t get with a woman that like, pointed that out to me, I probably would’ve never changed it.

Garrett: Interesting. So you said you were trying to slow down, I think a lot of our listeners who are trying to stop the consumption of pornography, they have attempted to stop again and again and again and again and again with not with zero success. Like they just keep going back to it. And so you’ve stopped slowly?

Lamar: Yeah.

Garrett: Interesting.

Lamar: Yeah

Garrett: Has that been…

Lamar: I feel like I’m getting better and better with it every day.

Garrett: That’s cool.

Lamar: Like the urge… I used to wake up…

Garrett: Ready, that mindset.

Lamar: I could had this beautiful woman right next to me. It was just like, programmed.

Garrett: Yeah. One thing. It’s like we needed to start choosing people over pixels. Right? It’s like you know, pixels are not real man.

Lamar: Yeah.

Garrett: That’s cool. So gradual… that’s another thing, it’s like when it comes to pornography, oftentimes it’s a gradual process to become addicted. That’s one of the misconceptions because people think if they look at pornography, they’re addicted. And oftentimes that’s not true. There’s progression to work towards that unhealthy state. There’s also progression, like a gradual progression to work towards a, towards a healthy state. I just wanted to mention that because it’s important for our listeners that, perfection isn’t the goal.

Lamar: Yeah.

Garrett: We’re gonna, we’re gonna make mistakes. We’re gonna have setbacks. Right? How have you dealt with the setbacks, Lamar? Like how, how have you pressed forward, man? Because I look at your…

Lamar: I think I’ve just kind of learned from them and like, uh,… So in that, um, and so in having a setback, try to learn from it. Like what caused it, what triggered it, you know what I mean? Um, what got you there mentally?

Garrett: interesting. And talking about the, the gradual process toward addiction, do you consider yourself addicted to porn or is it more a compulsive behavior or an unhealthy habit?

Lamar: I would say that I was addicted. Even when I, yeah,… hell yeah. 100%, I’ll give you a story. I’ll give you just an example. Um, say like in the NBA, if you late, you just get fined. No big deal, not going to beat you in the head about it. Whatever. There’s been times where I know damn well the bus is at 10:30, why would I choose to watch porno at 10:28?

Garrett: Interesting.

Lamar: You know what I’m saying? I’m on a championship team and I have a major role.

Garrett: Yeah.

Lamar: You know what I mean?

Garrett: Interesting.

Lamar: Times like that where I’m like, you have to be an addict or a straight asshole, and I don’t think I’m an asshole.

Garrett: Right. What’s interesting is that you, you’ve addressed this issue and this year is the first year that the NBA is going to be required to have like a mental health expert on retainer.

Lamar: That’s too bad for the NBA.

Garrett: That this is the first year?

Lamar: How are you just figuring out you need to help all these young black men? They’re just light years behind on that.

Garrett: For sure. Well, you talked about that in your book with you and Ron Artest. You guys were the best players here and people look at you for shoe deals, they look at you to make it to the Final Four. It’s just dollar signs, but you were kids with mental health challenges.

Lamar: Hmm. That’s crazy. Yup.

Garrett: How has, over the course of your lifetime in basketball, how has that awareness changed? Because back in the day, I mean, it was still, we’re still struggling through it. Like allowing a, a person to be vulnerable.

Lamar: Yeah. Yeah. I think now like, like especially for the way that, um, how Ron grew up, um, with the turbulence said his life, even in my life. I think people who came before us would make sure we got some help. Especially you have these two talented young dudes on the, um, on the road to, you know, being able to take care of themselves and their families in a way that no one else in their family’s going to be able to do. I think the people that we love would’ve really tried to protect us from us, you know?

Garrett: For sure.

Lamar: Instead of having this go to these, um, things in public. You know, these weren’t behind the doors.

Garrett: Well, of course the public eye was on you.

Lamar: Him Too. Since then we were like 15, 16, 17. That’s crazy.

Garrett: So what’s your recommendation for someone else struggling that doesn’t feel like they can be vulnerable enough to tell the truth?

Lamar: Do the complete opposite. You’ve heard the saying the truth will set you free.

Garrett: I think that you’re probably the biggest professional athlete to talk about self medicating with pornography.

Lamar: Well, first of all, athletes ain’t gonna…. probably an athlete on a team. If I’m on a team atmosphere, I’m going to admit to, I jerk off, but just the people, I’m an athlete, why would I need to jerk off? You know what I’m saying? Why don’t I need to pleasure myself?

Garrett: Right.

Lamar: That’s that egotistical shit that takes over.

Garrett: Interesting. I think, I think your vulnerability is going to inspire other people to be like, yeah, like I need to address this.

Lamar: There probably will be a lot of people that come out and be like, oh yeah, “you know what…”

Garrett: “I’m experiencing this too.”

Lamar: Yeah, “I get the same problem too.”

Garrett: For sure.

Lamar: I mean, I’m, I’m in the bed with beautiful women and I’ve got my phone, like trying to get that extra. What are you trying to do?

Garrett: So that’s how normal was for you? You were with a girl…

Lamar: It didn’t matter.

Garrett: and you were still looking at porn?

Lamar: It didn’t matter. I could still have the porn, you know what I’m saying? Doing what I do with a woman matter. It didn’t matter.

Garrett: Interesting.

Lamar: And none of them never were like, none of them ever said ‘No, Lamar.’ you know? ‘you don’t like me?’. Or ‘I’m not good enough?’None of them.

Garrett: Until Sabrina?

Lamar: It’s kind of crazy. Well I remember no being married to Khloe, I was like a little nervous to watch porn with her.

Garrett: Yeah.

Lamar: Especially at first when we first married, I was like, you know what I’m saying? I didn’t want her looking at me like ‘pig.’

Garrett: Right. That shame.

Lamar: Yeah.

Garrett: Shame is a heavy thing, man.

Lamar: Well that’s true.

Garrett: Do you sometimes wonder what you could have accomplished if the NBA, not to call out the NBA, but like if you had grown up in a place where as you progressed in your basketball career, there was a professional, like a mental health professional and people were more vulnerable. Do you sometimes wonder if you’d still be playing?

Lamar: I mean, I can put myself in a lot of, um, hypothetical situations and think about how good I could have been if I paid more attention to the game. I wasn’t, you know, fighting addiction, you know what I mean? Maybe a couple of more hours on the practice court in the summertime. But it’s kind of hard to live with, you know what I’m saying? You gotta live with regrets.

Garrett: For sure.

Lamar: You know, so I kinda try not to dwell on it too much.

Garrett: For sure. One thing that is important for our listeners to consider is why are you consuming pornography or why are you turning to this behavior?

Lamar: That’s a great question. I couldn’t even… it’s hard to me for even answer myself cause it couldn’t be a lack of women.

Garrett: Right.

Lamar: I always had women even before the NBA.

Garrett: Right?

Lamar: I don’t know.

Garrett: Sometimes…

Lamar: Being a sex addict and your porn addict and a drug addict, it’s probably a bad combination, being addicted to three, all three.

Garrett: I wonder why… you said that you were having a challenging time to identify why you would turn to porn, but also the question is like why would you also turn to, for our listeners, it’s like, why would you turn to this? Why would you turn that? In your cases? Why would you turn to coke? Why would you turn to girls? Why would you turn to porn? And have you figured that out? Like you said that your genes were locked and loaded,

Lamar: Maybe lost, um, maybe the lost of my mother. It could be subconsciously, like so many things.

Garrett: You’ve experienced… I just want to acknowledge, bro, that you’ve experienced some, some heavy stuff that we shouldn’t have to experience.

Lamar: Yeah. Well the death of a child, that’s the opposite of life cycle. Right? Your child supposed to bury you one day, so, um,…

Garrett: And your mom at a young age.

Lamar: Yeah, and I lost a cousin who got killed. Um, but I mean, yeah, it means tough. But I mean, you know.

Garrett: If you had to guess, would you say that’s maybe one of the reasons why you used to turn to drugs and porn?

Lamar: Probably. So it could be a trauma through loss.

Garrett: Yeah.

Lamar: I would say easy.

Garrett: Yeah. Does that give you a sense of relief to realize that? Because I think any of us in your shoes, we would have done the same thing.

Lamar: Well I think at least to, um, if you don’t know where you’re hurting then how do you know where to hearl, where to put the bandaid? But possibly, I think a lot of that could have came from the loss of my mother and other traumas in my life.

Garrett: So I like that analogy of covering the wound, right? Where are you bleeding? Why are you bleeding and covering the wound? You mentioned your girlfriend, she’s part of that, of covering your wound, right? Cause it’s all about healthy connection, because once you start walking away from porn, you need to replace that with human connection with,

Lamar: yeah.

Garrett: What else do you turn to for good, healthy connection?

Lamar: My family, my children, Lamar Jr., and Destiny. That’s why I’m sitting here now, because of them.

Garrett: That’s cool. I love that. That’s important man. Do you have conversations with your kids about pornography?

Lamar: Nah. Nah. Hell No. (laughter)

Garrett: (laughter)

Lamar: You know what’s so funny, like I want to ask my son so bad, bro.

Garrett: Interesting.

Lamar: I want to ask him so bad. My daughter, I don’t know, but my son I want to ask them so badly. What you watch? What you into? You know what I’m saying? Just to like pick his brain a little bit.

Garrett: Well you know what’s interesting to Lamar is one of the misconceptions that we tried to break with [inaudible] drug is that it’s just a dude problem. It’s the guy, it’s just a guy problem. The reality is that lots of girls, lots of females struggle with this stuff. Because the harmful effects of pornography don’t discriminate. So what’s holding you back from talking to your boy? Just embarrassment? Is it,… cause it’s interesting to me that you’ve been so real and so honest.

Lamar: Yeah. And it’s kind of like we’re at the age where, I mean I was young, I was fortunate. I had my kid, he’s young. So my daughter is 21 and my son is 18 me and just Sabrina just took my daughter to the club and we met with Eli and Mic Drop two weeks ago.

Garrett: So they’re right at that age.

Lamar: Yeah. And I don’t know. I don’t know why, because I’m like the cool dad. Yeah. You know what I’m saying? So…

Garrett: Yeah, for sure. 100%.

Lamar: I don’t know why. Cause if they don’t get it from me, they’ll probably find out the wrong way. Or they probably already…

Garrett: It’s very probable that they’ve already seen it.

Lamar: 100%.

Garrett: Yeah.

Lamar: And if it didn’t come from me…

Garrett: Is it, it’s part of it just not, not knowing how to have that conversation? Like where do you start kind of thing?

Lamar: Yeah, cause I don’t wanna like never put the blame on. I’m like, well I don’t want to shame them.

Garrett: Yeah, you don’t want to perpetuate shame.

Lamar: You know what I mean?

Garrett: Yeah. Interesting. We have a,… on our website FighttheNewDrug.org/blueprint. We have a choose your own adventure conversation. Like where you get on, you say, ‘Hey, I’m a dad and I want to talk to my kid about pornography’ and it walks you through and gives you steps like, Hey, do this, do this, do this, don’t do this, don’t do that.

Lamar: That’s what I think I might have you do. I’m like, I might have you send me like a couple of links yeah. To the, to some websites and send them to my kids. Send them to my daughter, she’s smart. She gets it.

Garrett: We actually have a three part documentary that we just finished. It’s called Brain, Heart World because our whole thing is that pornography affects individuals, relationships, and the world. And, um, I think that I’m going to send you the link to Brain, Heart, World so you can check that out because I think your kids would benefit from it too. Anything else I’m missing? Lamar? Anything else you’d want to talk about?

Lamar: We got on to, you know, the human trafficking, um, and how it relates to porn. Um…

Garrett: That’s one thing that I don’t think people realize, is that slavery still exists today.

Lamar: Yeah, that’s one thing that has to stop.

Garrett: Yeah.

Lamar: That’s kinda crazy. That’s bananas.

Garrett: Yeah. Sex trafficking is happening, it’s slavery. It’s not cool. It’s not okay, and the pornographic industry fuels that industry.

Lamar: It’s crazy because Sabrina was saying, now, you know, she’s like, she’s a stand up woman. Well she was saying, like sex trade, like that’s big money.

Garrett: Oh, for sure. So it’s interesting to me because when it comes to sex trafficking, people are up in arms and they’re like, ‘for sure I’m against sex trafficking.’ But then when it comes to pornography, they’re like, ‘I watch a little bit of porn.’

Lamar: Yeah. Because they don’t really make that correlation. Like I didn’t really know.

Garrett: Yeah, I’m not hating on anyone.

Lamar: You know what I’m saying? When you just pointed that to my light, I didn’t know that they were like combined, but I just try to use my common sense.

Garrett: Right.

Lamar: To be like hold up. But who’s the one dude that just killed himself here in New York?

Garrett: Yeah, Epstein. Jefferey Epstein, billionaire.

Lamar: Was He, he was a sex trafficker, right?

Garrett: Well he was accused of sex trafficking. Yeah, it’s messed up man.

Lamar: So he has sex dolls, you think? Basically.

Garrett: So sex trafficking, the definition in the U S is a sexual act induced by force, fraud or coercion or if the person in such act as under the age of 18.

Lamar: what’s the definition of coercion? Just so I’m not…

Garrett: To persuade someone using threat or force. So this is what happens. So this is why some people who watch pornography, one of their justifications is that I only watched the consensual stuff. But the reality is is you don’t know where that pornography came from and you don’t know how that pornography was made. So this is one example where an actress will show up to a gig.

Lamar: Yeah.

Garrett: And her agent will be like, ‘you’re going to do this scene and this scene and this scene.’ Then the person acts out in a different way that she didn’t agree to and if she steps aside and she talks to her agent, she’s like, ‘hey, like I didn’t agree to this.’ And then the agent says like, ‘well, if you don’t do this, there’s going to be problems. Like we won’t be able to get a job again. We won’t get paid.’ That’s a threat. And so by definition that could be considered sex trafficking.

Lamar: I get it.

Garrett: Because she was being coerced into it.

Lamar: Yeah.

Garrett: One question I had for you, Lamar, is the porn industry, I don’t know if you’re aware of this, some of the top sites out there support racist videos. And for me…

Lamar: Give me an example of what would be a racist video in porn? BB… calling someone…

Garrett: No, an example of, it’s very graphic, dude. I don’t even think to mention it, but it would be like white dudes having sex with black women and using racial slurs all acting like they’re slaves.

Lamar: Yeah. That’s kind of crazy.

Garrett: Yeah. It’s way crazy. But just this stuff ends up, because of the Internet, it ends up everywhere.

Lamar: But that’s really crazy. Like to think that somebody’s fetish…

Garrett: Is that?

Lamar: … like rubs off on you like that.

Garrett: Oh yeah.

Lamar: Would that can like intensified a scene even to you, even though that’s not your thought process on how you view people.

Garrett: Right. It’s going back to Dr. Norman Doidge that our templates are molded by our experiences and our culture. Anyway, it’s interesting.

Lamar: Yeah, it’s deep.

Garrett: So Lamar, as we kind of take this conversation to a close, the goal for you is to, the goal is health, all around, right? Optimal health.

Lamar: Mental health, bro.

Garrett: mental, physical, emotional,…

Lamar: Everything.

Garrett: For sure. Well Lamar, we, uh, just want to thank you…

Lamar: Nah, thank you brotha.

Garrett: … for, for being here today and, but not just today. We appreciate you showing up. Um, day in and day out. And for being vulnerable, for being real, for writing your book, for talking to the harmful effects of pornography and how it’s affected you.

Lamar: Thanks, bro.

Garrett: Because it’s going to help a lot of people.

Lamar: Yeah.

Garrett: So we appreciate it.

Lamar: It’s all good, bro.

Garrett: Thank you, Bro.

Lamar: Thanks.

Garrett: Thanks for joining us on this episode of Consider Before Consuming. Consider Before Consuming is brought to you by Fight the New Drug. Fight the New Drug is a nonreligious non legislative organization that exists to provide individuals the opportunity to make an informed decision regarding pornography by raising awareness on its harmful effects using only science, facts, and personal accounts. We want to get a special thank you to Eli Nash and Mic Drop for helping us connect with Lamar. If you haven’t already, go check out Eli’s Ted talk titled Escaping Porn Addiction. We’ve linked it to this episode. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe and leave a review.