FTND (00:46)
Okay. Remind me what your hot take about Gen Z is.

My hot take about Gen Z is: Correct me if I’m wrong, but it’s been a while since I’ve aired this take. Gen Z hasn’t created anything. They’ve just taken what other people have created and said it’s theirs. Is that what it was?

Yeah. You said it more…that was the most neutral I’ve heard you say it.

Okay.

It’s usually “your generation has done nothing.”

So the generations before, millennials specifically, have created all these technologies, and what has Gen Z created? They just have used these technologies or taken old-fashioned bits or taken things that previous generations have or have trauma about, like baggy jeans or too big of clothes, and said, That is now ours, and we are making you relive your trauma through us.

Baggy jeans trauma. Okay, but you mentioned in there…do you think that there’s something about the internet that’s why? Because we aren’t forced to, like my generation, we weren’t really forced to be with other people except on a screen. So do you think that that’s why we haven’t done anything new?

I think that has something to do with it. I do think Gen Z is more on screens than other ones because I…my algorithm is like, let’s have our kids not be on screens. Let’s have a ninety summer, and having lived my ninety summer, I lived a ninety summer. I am that old that I do remember having to not play too far away from the door so I could hear the phone ring if I had to and not just have the phone in my pocket. So I do remember those days. And I remember commercials were a thing, and you could hurry and go to the bathroom during that time, but you couldn’t take your screen with you. So I remember that.

Wow. I don’t. I do a little bit. But it is true that my generation is the first generation to grow up with technology. Which is weird. And there are good things about that and bummer things about that. I think one of the things that’s a bummer is my generation is the first generation to grow up with internet pornography, obviously.

Not necessarily grow up with it, but it was here to stay. Like, it wasn’t this thing that came on, and you like had to navigate how to access it. It was just there when you showed up. Well, it’s like you never hear anymore about people who were first exposed with a Playboy magazine or with a VHS. Because I remember when I was a kid, I went into my like, it was an older relative’s garage in a shop, and I would just remember seeing all the women up there, some clothes, some not clothes, and just like that was his domain, his garage. It didn’t matter what was up there. It was like, Welcome to the man’s world, you know what I mean? Now I was just going back there to ask my dad when we were going home. But I was like, Whoa, this is what’s going on, and you know what I mean? And I was so I do remember that, and that doesn’t really exist how it does now.

No, like the first time I remember seeing anything that was in that line was on Instagram. Yeah. Actually, ’cause I had Instagram as like a, I don’t know, thirteen, fourteen year old. So yeah, I think it’s really interesting to see, you know, there’s a lot of research that’s, you know, kids are being impacted by this way or that way. And now, like, my generation is old enough that we’re starting to see on the other side how we’ve been impacted down the road. Yeah. you know, people in their 20s and whatever. And so there’s a really interesting study that LAD Bible actually did.

This is not peer-reviewed research, but it is a pretty comprehensive survey that they had done with 18-to 29-year-olds, so older Gen Z in the UK. The purpose of the study was to understand how young people think about and interact with porn today and to uncover how porn is shaping young people’s relationships and intimacy. So first off, first of all, 77% of Gen Z in this survey reported that they do watch porn. One in ten women said they watch daily, and one in four men say they watch daily. Okay. Surprised, not surprised?

I am not surprised. Like, just the balance of how what the majority of what porn is made is for men, so therefore more men will consume porn. That’s how I look at that.

Mm-hmm. Well, and there’s also a lot of research that’s showing that, like, algorithms specifically drive pornography consumption for male audiences and that technology works that way. So I don’t think that’s a surprise either.

Like, I know a lot of my world I consume a lot of NBA basketball, and I know that if you align who the target audience is, it is teen boys and young adult males. They’re wanting to do this, and you can easily target…I know in their real story feature, whatever you call it on X. It’s like I was watching basketball highlights and then porn just popped up, and it’s like they know that I am an adult male and so I would probably enjoy that. And I know kids now will say, like, “of course I click on NBA stuff because I know that I will see porn eventually.”

And like I know that is a gateway. That’s all cons that can sound conspiracy. I don’t know. But I just know that has happened to me plenty of times because they know my age, my demographic, everything that I would probably people your age stay on this reel just as long as they do a basketball highlight. So that’s why it’s probably in my feed.

Interesting.

But so with teens, it’s like they probably that’s a gateway straight to what they were…what they came for there for basketball, good intention. Straight into something else.

For sure. Yeah, I think for sure.

This is really interesting. More information about how younger people are seeing pornography. So seventy, so almost all of the participants said that they watch it on free porn sites. So, you know, Pornhub, that sort of thing. Thirty-six percent say that they watch pornography on social media.

Yeah. okay, social media. Social media porn. I and I I know there’s sites that like try to control it and it’s like what is considered social media? ‘Cause like we have X, formerly Twitter. That is very easy to access anything. So it’s like, that’s where it’s most accessible. So I don’t know why they’re not saying it by platform, ’cause can vary, but I that’s what I assume.

Yeah, and another study actually, so not this one, a different one, actually was able to track where kids are saying that they are being exposed to pornography. This was shocking to me, but not shocking. But kids are now more likely to see porn on social media than they are on a search engine. The top platform being Twitter now, X, as you mentioned, because it is unregulated for people who don’t know. Second was Instagram, so thirty-three percent of kids. A third of kids are being exposed on Instagram. Again, whether that’s through, you know, sort of softcore thirst-trappy content or pornographic content that ends up on there and isn’t supposed to be, or if that’s taking them to OnlyFans or to another platform that is not clear in the study. Snapchat thirty-two percent, so right underneath that. And then search engines, thirty percent. So those are the top platforms to look out for if you are a parent, caregiver, etc., but something that everyone should be aware of.

And on this study specifically, 63% of the participants said that they were exposed before the age of 16. Other national surveys suggest that the average age is between eleven and thirteen, so younger than that even. And yeah, I mean so many kids are saying that they were exposed through platforms like Instagram or X or whatever it may be. So we’re seeing a generation that has high exposure to pornography and early exposure to pornography. We’ve kind of, if you were to chart it out, we would be, you know, the highest point on both of those things.

And so it’s interesting to see, kind of years down the road, what 20-year-olds, you know, 29-year-olds, whatever people in that age group are saying, Yeah, this is how it impacted me. So I kind of want to go through some of those findings there.

So the first thing I really want to talk about is how pornography has just in general become sex education for young people. And in this survey, 65%, so the majority of these participants said that porn was their first time being exposed to sex, period. So before they had a conversation with a parent, before they had sex ed in school, before any of that, which is wild.

A man between the ages of eighteen and twenty, his quote was in this survey. It said, quote, It was my main source of education. I had no other education other than partners or porn. It resulted in a very unhealthy relationship with sex, including some non-consensual experiences and more aggressive forms, as I thought that was the expectation.

I think sometimes when people think when we talk about porn, it’s pictures or you know, more softcore stuff. And softcore, like, doesn’t—softcore is thirst traps on Instagram now. And so kids are seeing abuse content; they’re seeing really aggressive, crazy, crazy things online, and if that’s the first thing that they see to explain what sex is, then we are setting them up for failure.. And so then we can’t be surprised when there are so many cases of child-on-child sexual abuse or kids being, you know, put in situations where they’re being groomed because they don’t realize that what’s happening to them isn’t normal. And half of these participants agree that watching porn has changed their expectations of real-life sex. So that’s scary.

Right. Agreed. Like I I completely agree with that because this this climate that we’re in, how we consume social media, is people just say record your everyday and that is content. People just want content. And millennials gave us the influencer generation where everything was highlight real, and that’s a lot of the porn that is being consumed. And then you have them saying, We want more real stuff and like taking that back, it’s like we’re being influenced so much.

And for an example, I was on a family trip, and we were at a pool, and my child saw a child YouTube star, and their eyes were glued to them to make sure they watched every move that that child star did. I had no idea who this YouTuber child was, but they were like locked in watching them navigate them. And another story with YouTube is at the end of the video I said like and subscribe, and my kid was really upset I didn’t like and subscribe. So they are literally following the steps of this video content that we are being shown. So I can say I can see why they say we want. to be shown this to know how to do it. And this generation is being shown how to live their life through videos, through vlogs.

Yeah, well it’s like if your kid is saying you should like and subscribe because they told you to like and subscribe, it makes sense that then if they’re seeing a lack of consent and they’re seeing aggression and violence in pornography, that then their brains go, Okay, copy and paste.

Yeah. Yeah. And I think something that is interesting is that there’s a lot of pushback on some of these ideas, especially from this generation. That was something else that was really highlighted in this study was that, you know, that we are the most porn-exposed generation, but we’re also very critical of pornography. So around a third of participants said that they want more genuine pleasure and authentic reactions, more realistic depictions of sex, which can include awkward moments, laughter, foreplay, more realistic bodies, more focus on female pleasure. So there is this recognition that wait, this we don’t want this in this way.

And I think Gen Z has done a really good job of saying, again, millennials gave us this vl the vlog lifestyle and we want it real. And now you can see content is shifting to just record your everyday. And they’re saying we need more everyday sex in their porn because we took all the highlights and the glamor and like the multiple editing angles, and Gen Z has said, like, we just want the mundane. Like, that’s what is really in right now is just recording the mundane, the ordinary life of a person. And like I can see how they’re saying they want to see the ordinary and all that because that’s all what content is. Like we look at TikTok, like they get ready with me. It’s like okay, but like a vlog used to go over a lot more, and we had more highlights, and it was just they’re they they saw into the highlight-only culture. And now I can see why they’re saying they want the more real, because they say assume everything’s more fake.

Yeah. And certainly that’s a step forward. You know, our perspective here is that there’s abundant research that shows that pornography is harmful to individuals, relationships, and society. You know, but any steps that can be taken to start to change the culture around the dangers of pornography, how harmful it is, those are things that, you know, can certainly be helpful to that. And something that this study didn’t mention at all was, you know, the abuse that happens or the trafficking that happens, exploitation as a result of pornography. And so I would be curious, more, you know, my generation, what our thoughts are on that sort of thing. And you know, what they would expect from porn moving forward if they knew that that was so deeply in a part of it, you know?

Yeah. That’s a good point.

Yeah. But it is good that, you know, our generation is wanting less of what mainstream pornography has been known to be. Yeah, to be about.

Well like it it tracks because obviously everything is a trend, and it’s like a trend like you can see the trends coming and going and whatever, but from all we had was photos, then all we had was like we had magazines and then centerfolds and then it’s like posters. And then the internet came along and brought us post like pictures on demand, right? And then it’s like video on demand. And now it’s like, no, we get full-on live stream now if we want. We get subscription right in our pocket of adult content, whatever we have. So I think it’s just, yeah, over time everything is adapting.

Yeah, with having access to literally any type of content, kind of like you said, it is hopeful that seventy-five percent believe that there should be more communication about consent between performers and porn, and sixty-four percent say that they do not remember seeing any explicit consent in porn.

Right. And I think it’s hard to know as a viewer where consent was and what consent took place and they always say it took place off camera, but I can imagine why they’re like, Teach us consent. Like if you’re teaching us sex, teach us consent. And I think porn will never do that because we’ve learned that that’s not fun to show on camera. And so I’m grateful for organizations out there that are teaching the nuance of consent and how to navigate that.

Yeah, and I think that’s something that my generation cares a lot about. I think one of the, I guess, downsides could be an upside depending on your perspective of growing up with so much media, is that you’re exposed to all sorts of things all over the world, cases where people are being exploited or, you know, sexual abuse cases. Like, that’s so in our faces all the time. And so I do think that’s something that the younger generation cares about is having consensual relationships, having consensual sex, having respectful interactions between people. And so I think that that’s a lot of good awareness that people recognize that that is not depicted in pornography, and then B a great step forward for people to say no, like that is the bare minimum of what we should be expecting. And then kind of along those lines, it’s really helpful that 77% want more resources to help navigate porn and sex. So 77%, that’s the vast majority.

Yeah. Part of me is like everyone wants more. Like we live in an age where we can get more information no matter what. And it’s like we just have to make sure it’s the right information that we want them to have about it. And ’cause it’s like there can be more porn fed to them, but is it the right information being fed to them about sex? That’s the problem. And it’s like we are doing our best to fight the new drug to even educate of the harms of porn and consent or trafficking, all of these things that are intertwined and porn that like they want more information about. So it’s like we’re just we are trying our best, and I think that’s the start, and like that’s the trajectory we need to go on is having more conversations about this. And yeah.

Yeah, and I’m glad that surveys like this are happening, opening up doors for people to think about some of these things or consider them. Obviously, we’re a resource that is there for people learn about these things, but you know, we unfortunately aren’t able to reach everybody.

So let me ask you, like we’re Fight the New Drug, we don’t say we are sex education. We’ve never said that. We educate on the harms of porn and sexual exploitation and all those things. But as Gen Z, as someone who identifies as Gen Z, what do you think you wish your generation knew more of in terms of like the survey when the in the high seventies say they want to know more? But it’s like, what do they want to know more of?

I think it’s tricky thinking about my experience growing up, I was kind of that last generation to play outside and have experiences without phones, but also the first ones to be given a phone at a pretty young age. Like all of my friends had smartphones towards the end of middle school, and I remember being a freshman in high school and feeling like, I’m the only one that doesn’t have a smartphone, and so I got a smartphone in high school, and we’re the first generations to do that. And so I think part of the problem was nobody knew what to do. It was sort of just okay, there’s this technology, let’s give it to kids.

So there was very little research about how that could be harmful for kids. There was very little examples of how it could be harmful or dangerous. Even parents didn’t know those dangers at the time. And so thinking about something like pornography, that wasn’t even really in the picture at all for parents or educators, in a different light than it had been previously. Because when you were given a phone, it was like, yeah, she’s gonna communicate on it. But little did we know it was like you’re opening the world to your child, not your child to the world. Yeah, you have access to everything. Yeah, and I was a very good kid. I never did anything that I shouldn’t have done on my phone. But that’s a lot to ask for a kid to say, here’s everything. There’s so much dangerous stuff on here, so much harmful stuff on here, but don’t look at it. But you have access to it. That’s a lot to ask for a child, and I think definitely…

I think it’s a lot to ask of anybody.

Anyone. Yeah, that’s such a great point. Not even a child. Yeah, and I think now we know a lot more about how that can be harmful and dangerous. But like when I was first given a smartphone, nobody really knew. The instructions were, if you see something uncomfortable, turn it off and, you know, go tell my mom.

Yeah, and then we actually are human, so it’s like that thing that brought up an emotion, you are curious about your emotion. So, like, not saying you, but like I’m just thinking the average boy of doing boy things of like that was an emotion I experienced seeing a thing thing I shouldn’t have, and I know I shouldn’t have, but I’m curious what that feeling was. So I’m gonna go back and see if I liked that feeling or not. And more times than not, when it’s porn or something they shouldn’t have done, they kind of have the adrenaline, and they confuse adrenaline and the excitement with something like, No, I like doing this. Does that make sense? And then later that wait when you learn more of what’s happening, it’s too late. And I think that’s the conversation we’re not having enough of, like, are you experiencing adrenaline because you know you’re not supposed to, or is it that you like that feeling?

But like there’s all these conflicted feelings, and I think young kids are just coming to realize like I didn’t know what I was experiencing, but I knew I was feeling something. And like being on a screen, like you’re getting brain rot, right? But it’s like you’re coming to something and you’re actually feeling something. And I think that’s something that kids don’t know how to navigate, and adults still don’t know how to navigate.

So like it’s it’s still playing with your emotions. And I think there’s a lot of emotions when kids are seeing porn, when kids are seeing content they shouldn’t, and they’re just trying to navigate what those are, but they don’t necessarily want to bring to an adult because they don’t know how they feel about those emotions yet.

Yeah, you made a good point that there’s, so there’s kind of a cocktail of emotions that come up. But that was gonna be my point is that I think the one thing that most kids recognize is that feeling of, this is off limits, or I shouldn’t be looking at this. And for a lot of kids, again, if that’s your first time being exposed to sex or to pornography, you know, you haven’t had a conversation like that before, how are you gonna go tell you’re not gonna go tell your mom or your dad, hey, look what I just saw? And so I think there’s you kind of mentioned at the beginning, there’s such a fear from the older generation to confront pornography with children or with teenagers, younger people, but the reality.

Do you want to be the person that introduces these topics to them in a safe and healthy way? Or do you want to take your chances and let whatever, you know, is available online and you know, whatever type of pornography is available, do you want them to go to that first?

Right. And it’s like, as an adult, you would hope that you had a few more answers than what the kids are experiencing. Like even if you’re an adult trying to navigate this for the first time, like you have a few more answers than what their peers will have. That’s how I see it.

Yeah. Do you have, like, as a parent, are there resources or information or things that you wish that you had known, or that you think would be helpful for other parents in that situation?

When people come up to me and ask me, since I’ve worked at Fighting Drug for over ten years, like people will come up and like if they don’t know me and they say that they get kind of uncomfortable. Like, you just said porn, and I was immediately checked out, like I didn’t know.

But the people who are experiencing their child or will be experiencing their child encountering porn, they will come up to me later and be like, hey, I have a friend or someone else I know is struggling. What can I do? And it’s like we have so many resources we’ve developed, we’ve built a documentary, we’ve had all these research databases, we’ve done a lot of videos, we make social content, like a lot of that. And a lot of times it comes down to like what type of person are they? Are they a documentary person? Are they a podcast person? Are they someone who needs to see things in a more academic way? And like there’s so so many, but like we’ve created a parent resource page where it’s just like parents just land here and start.

This parent page is really good to say whether your kid has seen porn or not. Start here, and then you flow through it. And here are the resources that we would suggest to use when you experience your kid looking at porn. You don’t want to react like someone just spilled red juice all over a white rug. Like ’cause it’s like I can’t tell parents my experience because they will freak out, you know? And it’s hard hearing that because internally an alarm is going off and you want to, but it’s like, this parent page will kind of help you navigate those feelings as well. Right?

Right. Yeah, yeah. I think the biggest thing that we try to stress is, you know, there’s not necessarily a single right way to do it. And the biggest part, even bigger than, you know, having the right thing to say or the right research to point your kid to, whatever it is, the biggest thing is to be a support person for your child and to be someone that they can trust and come to if they have questions about sex or if they see something online that they feel comfortable coming to you with that information.

Right. And like I’m just trying to be a parent. I’m trying my best. And I know that when I tell my kid, you idiot, why would you do that? Just kidding, I don’t tell my kids that, but I want to. But also, I know next time they do it, they will hide that they did that so they don’t get a reaction from dad or from mom. You know, and so knowing whatever they’re struggling with, whether it be porn or other situations, like being supportive is the most helpful, and this page helps parents be supportive and learn and navigate things and w fighting a drug hosts so many topics and resources about the topic of porn whether it be like how porn has evolved today into creator content that’s more subscriber based or whether it’s still AI deepfakes. Like we’re talking about it all.

So if anything, you land on the parent page and poke around Fight the New Drug, you will find a lot more interesting things that will just point to how to have conversations about porn in general. Yes. And that’s what Gen Z wants. They say they want greater support for parents to have convos with teens about porn. Okay. So there. I yeah. Done it. Yeah. And I’m curious if you’re a parent watching this, comment. Let us know if you used it. Let me know. Let us know. Yeah, we’ll link it below. Go check it out. But I’m just curious what you think it’s missing, what you wish you had.

But if you have teens that you if you’re on the spectrum of I have a teen that has consumed and I have a teen that hasn’t, how do I talk to both of them at the same time? Like we’re we’re trying our best. We’re trying to navigate it in this world as porn is always evolving. Our resources are always evolving. But a parent page is a great place to start.

Great.