Intro (00:11):
In this episode of Consider Before Consuming, we sit down with Louie Greek, a training specialist with Truckers Against Trafficking. Louie has dedicated the last decade to combating human trafficking, working with the transportation industry to identify and report trafficking situations. In our conversation, he shares the realities of trafficking, the tactics traffickers use, how everyday individuals can play a role in prevention, and the importance of reducing demand to stop exploitation before it starts. With that, let’s jump into the conversation. We hope you enjoy this episode of Consider Before Consuming.

Fight The New Drug (00:53):
Welcome to the Consider Before Consuming podcast. Louie, it’s an honor to have you here today. Can you share a bit about your background and how you became involved in the fight against human trafficking?

Louie (01:04):
Yeah, so I think how I became involved in the fight against human trafficking was a, a little of unusual route. My background by trade is in law enforcement and military. I spent 20 years in the military spent a significant time in civilian law enforcement mostly in Colorado. And my main focus was on suspicious deaths, death investigations, major crimes forensics, and spent the majority of kind of the, the first part of my career pursuing that aspect of law enforcement. But probably about, maybe now going on 12, 13 years ago, I had a former military buddy of mine. Tell me about the issue of human trafficking. I had not heard it in my police academies. It was not talked about in the military. We didn’t focus on it in law enforcement, and so I was surprised.

(01:56):
I was shocked. I had no idea that this issue was, was going on. And inter introduced me to an organization that was supporting other nonprofits, other NGOs and law enforcement internationally as it relates to combating human trafficking, finding ways to collaborate, support each other as it relates to this issue. And I, I was, I was sold, they were looking for law enforcement, former military that would volunteer maybe a week or two at time to support operations or missions in intelligence gathering other types of law enforcement capacities in other countries. And I was all in, I, I was like this is, this is, you know, really where I need to focus my, my skills, time, energy, my background and training on. And so I left US law enforcement and jumped right in and start out volunteering supporting law enforcement particularly in Southeast Asia.

Fight The New Drug (02:54):
You’ve been working, as you mentioned, to fight human trafficking for over 10 years now, and that includes helping to create the Thailand Internet Crimes Against Children Laboratory at the Royal Tyo Police Academy. How did your experience and expertise lead you to become involved in that specifically?

Louie (03:09):
Yeah, you know, I, I think those that are always kind of working in this space and combat human trafficking or trying to stay one step ahead of, of criminals of traffickers out there. And so, you know, oftentimes it is sometimes more developed countries that have the, the resources sometimes the money funding to create best practices, including using technology to really pursue traffickers, to assist those that are being victimized by this crime. And so I saw that as an opportunity as well as colleagues that I was working with to bring some of those best practices, that technology that is used in some of those developed parts of the world to other areas where law enforcement may not have those, or are lacking some of those resources. Because what we do know is that traffickers including those that operate in developed parts of the world, or those that are consuming, those that are involved in purchasing commercial sex sometimes go to other countries where sometimes they don’t either have the resources, like I said, the technology or the laws on the book to really kind of prevent or deter some of those people in that criminal activity.

(04:23):
And so that was, that’s what brought me to Southeast Asia and Thailand to create that laboratory in conjunction to the world Royal Tide Police. And that laboratory has been used by multiple countries and nations throughout Southeast Asia involving cases that are not only there in Southeast Asia, but sometimes those that, like I said, offend here in the United States or in Europe, and then travel to those other countries thinking they can get away with it, but not knowing that there are people that are working together and collaborating to finding tools and, and, and ways to stop this.

Fight The New Drug (04:57):
Yeah, that work is so incredible to help convey the landscape that you’re doing this work within. Can you speak to how the internet has changed the way traffickers operate? And what role does digital content play in exploitation today?

Louie (05:12):
Yeah, I think the Internet’s technology, social media plays a huge part, has really changed the face and dynamics of this issue. You know, when we’re talking about, at least from the perspective of the transportation industry, is where I focus now with truckers against trafficking. You know, a lot of times with those that wanted to gauge in commercial sex, typically had to do that in person, meaning they had to go to a place where someone was soliciting sex or a strip club, a massage parlor. The same thing with traffickers looking to find vulnerable individuals to lure them into, to this to, you know, the life or to this, this crime. You know, whereas they would look for individuals that might be experiencing housing issues or financial issues and see them on the street. Now, with the internet, a lot of times, individuals, they don’t have to meet that person directly to engage in some type of commercial or a commercial sex exchange. On the same thing with the vulnerabilities that I was talking about, where traffickers look for vulnerable individuals, including our youth, you know, where people may express or talk about their feelings or not feeling like they’re, they’re fitting in at school or not having friends, or having parental issues and putting that on social media. That’s where individuals with illit intent and, and looking to harm and exploit those vulnerabilities out there. So again, I think it’s really increased this issue in this crime tenfold.

Fight The New Drug (06:39):
Are there additional societal factors that you see that are fueling sex trafficking today?

Louie (06:46):
Absolutely. Again, we, we mentioned the internet pornography is a, plays a big role in that. In particular too, just in regards to the, the normalized behavior that we have in our society or have, have had for a long time. You know, I, I come from working in very male dominated industries, and so jokes things like going to strip clubs to celebrate a promotion or to whatever, maybe a, a normalized thing to do, not realizing the harm that it has behind that, not understanding who the real person is behind, you know, that internet screen or that computer screen there, or someone who may be on that stage or in that massage room, and really understanding that exploitation has there. And so I think in society, there’s a lot of normalized behaviors that were traditionally accepted that I think we, all of us together collectively, but in particular from my perspective men really have to kind of change that, that have that culture mind shift of no longer looking at some of these jokes no longer objectifying people but really looking to way to enforce authentic ma masculinity versus toxic masculinity.

Fight The New Drug (07:55):
Yeah, that’s so well said. And I have some questions about some of the, the initiatives at Truckers Against Trafficking that are kind of specifically addressing those pieces of this issue with men. But can we just talk a little bit about Truckers Against Trafficking? What led you to join the organization and what is your role within the organization?

Louie (08:14):
Yeah. So previously in the space that I was working with combating human trafficking wasn’t a more direct law enforcement role, oftentimes working undercover in positions that oftentimes put myself at risk and kept me away from loved ones. And so, you know, needing a, a, a break and a change from that I was able to join on with, with Truckers Against Trafficking. I’ve been there for six years. I felt it was the perfect place, you know not only do we work with the transportation industry, which I, I’ve had some touch touchpoint previously in my life but we also work with a lot of government and law enforcement, those that enforce a lot of the, the, the rules that we have along our roadways. And so I felt that based on my background and experience, I’d be, it would be the perfect fit to be able to communicate some of my experiences some of the best practices for our law enforcement out on the roadways, because oftentimes it’s some of those highway patrol state police that don’t receive human trafficking training, but really have the opportunity during just a general traffic stop to potentially identify something and, and really act on that situation.

(09:21):
So you know, in, in regards to my role at, at, at tat, it’s kind of changed over the years. You know, I’ve worked within our, our law enforcement program. We do collaborate and partner with a number of different human trafficking task forces across the country. So I’ve been working on that. And then as of most recently with our truck stop and travel center partners, so if you think about all the travel centers and truck stops across our roadways along our highways, you know, those frontline workers really have an opportunity to see things that a lot of general public doesn’t see. We’re, we’re busy throughout our days. We’re getting to and from work, we’re just stopping at these places. But you know, those that are involved in this crime, those are caught up in the issue of human trafficking. It’s a very transient sometimes world. And so this is a great place for frontline workers to be empowered to do something about this, this modern day issue.

Fight The New Drug (10:16):
Yeah. Can you help us understand how human trafficking is happening in the trucking industry?

Louie (10:22):
Yeah. You know, I think there’s a lot of misconceptions of what this crime looks like. You know, with our TV shows, movies, you know, it’s not the, it’s not the white van snatching people up off the road. You know, oftentimes it’s individuals in our communities, oftentimes that grew up in our own communities that are experiencing some type of, of challenge or vulnerability. And that could be, you know, that maybe it’s a young youth that doesn’t have stable housing, and maybe it could be an adult that’s experiencing financial issues. Maybe it can be a substance issue. Oftentimes individuals that are involved in human trafficking know their trafficker. And so as I was talking about before, you know, the, the, the transportation industry, whether you’re thinking of bus stops planes, you know, travel centers, oftentimes, not always, but oftentimes traffickers are keeping their victims kind of transient.

(11:11):
They’re moving them from place to place. They’re keeping them confused, they’re keeping them under control. And so if we’re able to bring key indicators, red flag, what we call red flag indicators and, and inform and train those frontline workers on to potentially see those at these locations along our roadways, we have numerous successful accounts of where someone just saw something, made a phone call on behalf of potential victim or, or possibly seeing a trafficking situation and un unfolded to, you know, being able to liberate multiple individuals or the arrest of multiple traffickers. And so I think that’s how the transportation industry has really become an ally in combating human trafficking.

Fight The New Drug (11:53):
Yeah, that’s amazing. Can you share with us some of the key signs that in your work, your teaching truckers and others in the transportation industry to look out for and that they’re trained to look out for, to be able to help intervene in these situations?

Louie (12:10):
Yeah. Some of the things that we tell ’em about is maybe someone, especially at a travel center or at a truck stop that might be dressed inappropriately for the weather and backed by the truck. Sometimes there’s an area where mostly the truckers and drivers are at but they have seen where there’s sometimes someone who’s dressed in maybe revealing clothing. It could be a cold day that are act actually out by the trucks, just stands outta place there. We’ve heard from some of our survivors that we work with or on our staff that they weren’t allowed to speak for themselves. So if you’re having someone that is, you know, engaging in conversation, but they’re not allowed to speak for themselves, maybe they’re not in control of their own identification or their paperwork. So some of those things are, are, are what we tell our frontline workers to be observant for, to be seeing. There’s a few others there. But again, it, it, you know, one may not be indicate, indicate something, but it does open an opportunity to show some compassion and ask a few more questions simply asking, you know, how are you doing today? Or, where are you traveling to? May open some opportunities to see some other identification indicators that might, might show that something’s going on.

Fight The New Drug (13:18):
Yeah. Can you share some success stories where checkers or transportation workers played a key role in identifying or preventing trafficking?

Louie (13:28):
Yeah, I wanna share a, a, a couple of those. The first one is, so within our programs, we also include school, transportation transportation that focuses on youth. Especially because not only does our 50% of our youth take school transportation, but many of them take, you know, kind of our public transportation, you know, the, our, our city buses. And if those that are watching and listening know, you know, and sometimes in your communities, sometimes those can be very dangerous places. And so we want not only information and awareness for that youth, but also for those that are, are serving those youth. And so the, the first example I wanna share was a, a transit agency just south of Portland in, in Oregon. They got a call one morning from a concerned father. So dad you know, said goodbye to his girls.

(14:18):
They were heading to school. His two daughters were about 12 and thir, or yeah, 12 and 13 years old. And school calls up and says, Hey, you know, they didn’t show up to school today. And right away, dad’s pretty concerned and worried. Dad calls law enforcement, of course, it’s been, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s been too recent. It hasn’t been enough time. But dad was kind of thinking about the conversations he’s been having with his daughters who’ve been talking or chatting with somebody online. And this is what we’re seeing pretty common these days, is where someone is talking or chatting with somebody online they’ve never met them in person. They may think it’s a peer, maybe someone that’s about the same age, you know, you know, someone in, in school. But the reality is, it’s, it’s typically, you know, an adult posing as somebody as a child.

(15:02):
And so these girls had expressed to their dad that they wanna see their friend who is up in the Seattle area that they’ve been chatting with. Dad’s like, absolutely not. No way. Well, when he, you know, when he got that call from the school right away, that was the first thing he thought. He said, they’re probably gonna go see this person. And so, you know, after talking to law enforcement, he decided to give the, that bus company a, a call right away thinking that, you know, if they were gonna try to make this attempt that this is the way they would do it. And so he calls that that transit agency. And so this transit agency just actually went through our training and kind of how our programs work here at, at, at tat, which is Truckers Against Trafficking for short, is that we have typically a 50 minute training that goes into either onboarding for like a driver, like a bus driver or ticket counter personnel.

(15:49):
Sometimes they may play it in like an annual safety meeting, but they receive that 15 minutes of training. Talk about those indicators that we were talking about there. They receive some other things like we call our wallet card that just, just this piece of paper that goes in their pockets, purses, it really reminds them of the role that they play. And so this transit agency went through that training. They were, you know, vigilant. They’re kinda looking for it out there. And so when they got that phone call from that concerned father, they knew really what to do right away. They already had a report a protocol. They reviewed the, the, the tapes from the surveillance, and they saw that those two girls did board a bus that morning. And so comes to find out that they were on a bus on its way just past the, the border into Washington.

(16:33):
And so dispatch gets a hold of the bus driver, tells ’em what’s going on, tells ’em what’s going on with these girls. He confirms that they’re on this bus, they get to the next stop. And that bus driver, who actually was a a former school bus driver, was able to kind of pause, you know, stall things, talk to these, these girls, kind of ask ’em where they’re going and waiting till law enforcement and other services get there. So fortunately in this case, you know, because of that training, because of, you know, that that transit agency already having a plan in place, were they able to intercept these two girls that were going to meet somebody that was not a, a, a youth that was not up peer, this was somebody that was online posing as somebody else. And so that’s a great example of where our, our training where resources and materials can really be a deterrent in that opportunity and, and prevent exploitation.

(17:26):
The other example I want to give, and I, I could probably give a number of these I’m just gonna throw this in there. We have what’s called our Harriet Tubman Award. Every year we look to an award both in financial as well as a, a an event, a frontline worker that made a call that either resulted in the freedom or liberation of a potential victim or the rest of traffickers. And so we have numerous nominations every year. This next one actually happened at a travel center and, and truck stop. And so, again these frontline workers going through our training, understanding some of those indicators. And so it’s a, it’s a night shift, you know they’re, they’re working there. There’s a hotel or motel attached to this truck stop, which there’s typically are. And one of the night porters actually sees a vehicle that put pulls up.

(18:17):
he sees a couple people that sit in the vehicle and he sees a, a young woman that gets outta that vehicle and, and goes into one of those rooms doesn’t stay there for more than about an hour, goes back to the vehicle and then actually goes into a different room. And just based on that training, you know, just based on her appearance, the way she appeared, kind of her demeanor, she looked kind of almost frightened, a little disheveled thought, boy, this doesn’t seem right. You know, based on protocol and training, let supervisors know. And, and they called local law enforcement. And law enforcement showed up pretty quickly. When they got there, they right away re identified that young woman. They’ve been investigating a number of ads that were online and comes to find out that the three individuals in that vehicle were actually explaining her and actually as well as 12 other individuals across multiple states.

(19:10):
And so, again, from, you know, these frontline workers that just happen to be doing their jobs, which we consider our everyday heroes, just with a little bit of awareness training, has empowered them to be able to see these types of things that are happening in plain sight, which are, you know, everyday citizens are kind of seeing and, and missing. But these, these frontline workers are really seeing this type of stuff happening and implying such an important and impactful role. So those are just two examples. You know, I encourage you know, listeners and, and, and viewers today, if they have an opportunity to go to our website at, at truckers against trafficking.org or tat nonprofit.org. And, and, and check out some of those like success stories. ’cause we do have a lot of them. And we’re, we’re very thankful for the transportation industry of really kind of taken ownership of this issue and, and, and making a huge difference in as it relates to it.

Fight The New Drug (20:02):
Yeah, I would also encourage our listeners to go look at those success stories. And I think it is an important reminder that, you know, sometimes I think for a lot of us to feel like we could make a difference on this issue, it’s like, well, I couldn’t intervene in a situation where, you know, I’m, I’m not strong enough to step in. But it’s like, that’s not the only way to step in and help in these situations and, and just paying attention to our surroundings. And if you see something, say something and being able to have resources like Truckers Against Trafficking to help inform the roles that so many of us can play. So thank you for sharing those and for the amazing work you do. It’s, it’s so nice to get to hear.

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Fight The New Drug (21:36):
I wanna talk about some of tats other resources. So you have a why talk about porn document. Can you share about the connection between porn and sex trafficking a little bit more and, and kind of why that document in particular is part of the resources that you have?

Louie (21:51):
Yeah, so here at our organization, we really re recognize that we need to address the demand for commercial sex. If we’re really gonna put a dent in this, we can train as many frontline workers, drivers, employees out there. We can deploy as much training as possible, but unless we change that, that that normalized behavior, unless we address the demand for commercial sex, you know, we’re, if we’re just kind of beating our head against the wall in, in some sense, you know, we can really put a stop to this crime. Where it starts you know, we have, we have, we have a staying, and it’s, it’s been heard before, but you know, if, if there’s you know, if there’s no buyer, there’s no victim, and you have no, no sex trafficking. And so so as part of our mission in that, and to address that, we created our Man Toand campaign.

(22:39):
And to really focus on some of those issues as it relates to the demand for commercial sex pornography is probably one of those. You know, even in my, the majority of my time in working this issue, I didn’t always understand the connection. But unfortunately with the internet, it allows for a larger platform for exploitation out there. It also again, reinforces some of those toxic traits and behaviors, those normalized behaviors. I know in, in my personal experience, especially working human trafficking cases and say Southeast Asia, there’s a lot of times where I’d actually see, you know, fathers indoctrinate their sons into, you know, manhood or sexuality by taking them to red light districts or strip clubs. I think the same thing may be happening with pornography online. You know, young, particularly young men and women are going here and they’re viewing this.

(23:35):
And so if we’re not having these tough conversations, if if parents or adults aren’t having healthy messages as it relates to intimacy, as relates to relationships, then a lot of our youth are gonna learn it from pornography. They’re gonna see it on the internet. And, and again, I think we have to be proactive in having that conversation, because unfortunately, there’s too many examples these days of where that’s sliding into, into social media, or there’s links there, or just out of curiosity. And so if individuals, if that’s where they’re learning about what sex should be, they’re learning a lot of unhealthy messages. It also, you know, pornography portrays a lot of unhealthy images in regards to intimacy. And so, you know, if you’re looking at things that may involve violence, that may involve harm it also has been proven in a number of different studies that pornography actually encourages one intent to actually have the courage to go out in society and then actually purchase commercial sex.

(24:36):
And so pornography is actually kind of pouring fuel on an issue that has existed forever. Human trafficking, human exploitation has been around for a long time, but I think with pornography and the internet, it’s really fueled this fire e even more. And, and, and as I’m sure it’s been and talked about before, but just really and want to emphasize is that on the other side of that, that screen, you know, people don’t know what that in individual’s experiencing. They don’t know whether they’re a willing participant or not. But what we’ve known and from hearing from survivors is that oftentimes they aren’t willing, survi willing participants you know, many tactics such as force or contr coercion fraud are being used on people in vulnerable situations for that, that pornography. And so that pornography consumption adds to the demand.

(25:26):
That demand is really fueling that desire. And so you know, again, I think, you know, that that pornography industry is so large is has that access now that has made it so easier for people to be able to you know, to engage in, has again, just really led to misbeliefs misconceptions about what is healthy and what isn’t healthy out there. And I understand that. I think we are fortunate to live in a country where we have views and beliefs on freedom expression, but I think there are levels of, of a difference between when it does get to start harming communities, families lives out there. And I think that’s exactly what pornography is doing.

Fight The New Drug (26:09):
So well said. I mean, in the work that we do here, so much of our efforts are to help decrease the demand for sexual exploitation through education and awareness, right? So many people, because of the normalization of pornography just don’t know what some of these harms are. And so it’s really bringing that awareness to help people know so they can make an informed decision. You mentioned the Man-to-Man program at Truckers Against Trafficking. How can men specifically play a role in disrupting the cycle for the demand of commercial sexual exploitation?

Louie (26:41):
Yeah, I, I love this program. I, I kind of became my baby by default to when I joined the organization as the first male, and I had no idea what I was doing or talking about. And so I’m gonna come from a place of, of just vulnerability of, of, again, you know, growing up, I, I feel like I was very fortunate to, my father did provide healthy messages around manhood, sexuality, masculinity. However, I, I think also being in some of those environments like the military like the police academy, like law enforcement, where sometimes in a typically male dominated industry, you do have a lot more of those jokes that, that toxic masculinity that can really play such a role and influence others. And so, you know, I kind of felt that I was out of place, although I’d been working in the movement of human trafficking, I didn’t understand necessarily the demand aspect.

(27:35):
You know, I was so focusing on going after bad guys and, and helping liberate those that are in, in difficult situations. I wasn’t always understanding the why aspect of it, and how that related to my own life upbringing and my own experiences. And so with, with our Man-to-Man campaign, you know, it’s, it’s really to focus on man, but anybody in general and in society about the roles that they can play. And I think that really kind of, again, goes back to what I was saying and just having conversations like we are today, having tough conversations in groups that you typically won’t have these conversations. I will have to say, you know you know, being part of that program and putting it into practice and talking to old military buddies about like, Hey, you know, this isn’t the best, you know, joke that we should be saying, you know, this dehumanizes somebody, or, you know, I think there’s a better way that we can celebrate this promotion than actually go into a strip club or Hooters or something like that and explain the why behind it, letting them know, you know, having conversations about pornography.

(28:38):
You know, again, not fully understanding. I think when, when service members go on deployments or they’re overseas, you know, they don’t necessarily have to engage in, in-person commercial sex activity, but if they may be, you know, alone and they may be influenced by others to maybe look at pornography if it’s available, again, they’re still part of that problem. And so what we really encourage with that Man-to-Man campaign, because the transportation and other industries that we intersect with typically are male dominated, is to really kind of have this change to, to really kind of have males be this this figure for protection, you know, to have this authentic masculinity and really kind of change those jokes, those normalized beliefs, educate more men out there. Because although I wasn’t engaging and although I worked in this space, I really didn’t know, I, I just was ignorant a about the conversation and about the why behind it, not really understanding the harm that that would, would be causing there.

(29:38):
And so so it’s, it’s an excellent program. You know, we created a video within there, it’s about 40 minutes long. It’s a, it’s a great educational piece. You know, it has some, you know, men from all different walks of life. I think sometimes I identify with, you know, guys that are more knuckle dragers, you know, kind of the tough, you know, masculine kind of guys. But I think all men in all roles really have a role to play in, in this message in protecting not only potential victims of human trafficking, and not only women, but other men others and, and various agendas that they identifying with as, just as a role as human beings in society. And so, you know, that’s where we just have to have a little more courage. And I think that program in there gives some, some examples, gives some suggestions, gives some opportunity for men to take this back into their places, whether they’re on a sports league, whether they’re in a faith-based group, whether at their, the workplace, and have this tough conversation. Because really when, when we think about it and how we wanna affect change, especially for those that are interested in combating human trafficking, this is probably one of the most powerful ways that we can do this. Just simply having this tough conversation in society, especially with our vulnerable youth, especially with our impressionable youth on, on what’s important, what we value, and what’s healthy. I think that’s where we’re gonna make a difference in stopping this crime.

Fight The New Drug (31:01):
For any men who might be listening, who are intimidated by having these tough conversations, could you give an example of how to handle a conversation that maybe you get a positive response to, and also one that maybe you get a negative response to in trying to engage in this way to bring up any of the things you’ve mentioned?

Louie (31:22):
Yeah, that’s a great question. I think from my personal experience, I do think it’s a tough conversation, especially with, among friends that you’ve may have known for a long time, you know, that, that you spent, you know, time in a, what we call a foxhole or a bunk or, you know, in a, in a maintenance bay or whatever it may be. And, and I think you kind of build that comradery with them and, and, and that relationship, but then having to talk about something that sometimes might be very personal to somebody, it takes a lot of courage. And I would say that sometimes, you know people aren’t always very receptive to some of those messages. And I think what I would encourage men to do out there is, is to continue to have that conversation. Because I think it’s like anything in that relationship that you’re trying to convey there, it takes time to grow.

(32:13):
And so, you know, I, I think planting those seeds and those messages will help that that person understand. I think it will give them, and allow them time to digest that information and really see for themselves that, oh, maybe this really is causing harm. Maybe this really does, you know, hurt individuals within society, or, I didn’t really realize that my actions played a role in this. And so I, I, I think that’s probably, again, probably one of the best parts of, of that program is just encouraging the conversation out there. And it, it can be tough. On the, on the flip side, though I think it’s a, it’s a great opportunity to open people’s people’s eyes. I think I, I’m one of those. And I often see when we have, you know, sometimes we’ll have virtual kind of virtual events where we have conversations about this involving other men in various spaces and having this tough conversation.

(33:07):
And we hear great feedback. We’ll hear from, you know, men all the time. Like, gosh, I, I, I wish my dad would’ve would’ve told me that, or I wish my group of friends would’ve encouraged me in this direction versus, versus the other direction. ’cause it would’ve made a, a huge difference. I think there’s multiple points in my life where again, coming from a vulnerable standpoint where I was easy influenced by a bunch of guys because I was afraid to, to stand up or say I wasn’t interested in doing that, or that’s not something I’m really involved in and more going ’cause I wanted to fit in. And I think those are great opportunities and I think, like you said, you know, it could go positively, it could go negatively, but I think either way it’s about having that conversation and every time we have, you know, bits and pieces of that conversation, the more that kind of spreads throughout our society and more we can kind of change those cultural norms that we’ve been used to.

Fight The New Drug (34:00):
Yeah, and I think also some encouragement that even if in the moment it maybe doesn’t seem like it was a positive interaction, so often we hear from people who say, you know, I didn’t think this was a problem at the time, but then when I started to learn about this, I thought about a moment years prior when someone said this, or I saw someone wearing a t-shirt with a message on it, or whatever it may be. You never really know the ripple effect you can have. So even if the conversation doesn’t seem in the moment to be positive, you can still be having a positive impact on all of the things that you’ve mentioned, this normalization. And also maybe the person you’re talking with doesn’t receive it well, but maybe someone else who overhears the conversation thinks, oh wow, it’s okay to not go along with the thing that I’m not really comfortable with.

(34:45):
So you never really know how much impact it can make. So we would encourage anyone to try. And it does take courage and it is, it is not always easy. So we’ve got some resources to help with that. You’ve got some resources as well. We’ll be sure to link the resources of Truckers Against Trafficking in our show notes as well. I wanna ask most of your focus at tat is, is equipping those in the transportation industry to decrease trafficking. But, you know, aside from having these conversations, what can the average person do to prevent trafficking?

Louie (35:22):
Yeah, so I I, I think being a little more aware, you know, I think we go about our days and we often get caught up in, you know, our daily business, what’s going on, this and that. But I think being aware of the issue of human trafficking and, and the real issue, trying to weed out what might be misinformation or misrepresentation of the issue like I said with our, our, our TV shows and, and, and movies out there and, and really gravitate to opportunities to maybe join a group or coalition out there. Most even in rural parts of our country, most places do have some type of human trafficking group organization out there that is spreading awareness, that is sharing resources within your community putting up posters letting those that are in vulnerable situations know that there is assistance out there.

(36:17):
And so I, I truly believe there is a role for everybody. I, I encourage folks out there as we do with those that we train to never engage in, in confronting a potential trafficker or if you’re seeing some type of crime, but really just to make a phone call to make that phone call from the anonymity of, of, you know, your car, your home, there’s a number of different apps. We have an app for Android and iPhone that allows individuals to make texts to a hotline or to other state hotlines and stay anonymous. But those tips make a difference, you know, it does get to the right people. You know, if you see something, say something. I know it’s so common that we say that, and I, I think people oftentimes are, I’m not too sure, or what if I’m looking at may not be right.

(37:06):
and I would encourage you to do that because again, that tip may be very important. And when we see this a lot within our organization, someone sees something at a gas station or a convenience store, they’re like, well, I, I saw this yellow car and I saw these two girls that were kind of dressed this way and this age, it was on this day and this time, and that was it. Not thinking that, you know, it made a difference, but then, you know 30 miles, 50 miles down the road, someone else saw something very similar that was suspicious with that vehicle and those individuals and made a tip. And so that really makes a difference as it relates to, I can say from law enforcement’s perspective, in gathering information and gathering intelligence to really be able to go after traffickers to assist those that are, that are in need.

(37:52):
And so really kind of going back to your question I think there’s a number of different organizations out there. There’s a lot of resources and there’s a lot of groups that really find this issue important. And so whether it be just informing yourself by listening to this, this podcast here today getting connected with a organization, group or council out there or just learning more about the issue of human trafficking through books movies that, that, that depict this issue accurately. Really, again, everybody has a role that they can play in, in making a difference.

Fight The New Drug (38:30):
Yeah. Well said. You are someone who has so much experience in some of the darkest parts of these issues all over the globe. You’ve seen a lot obviously despite it being illegal, human trafficking, sex trafficking is a, a, a very significant industry globally. What gives you hope that we’re making some progress despite how big this can feel?

Louie (38:56):
That’s a great question, and I think I’ve wrestled with that a lot throughout my years in working this. I think it get discouraging oftentimes and as we talk about this issue of, of human trafficking as we talk, what relates to it and the some of the factors like pornography could be, it could be pretty heavy, it can be fairly difficult. What I think that encourages me and continues the hope and gives me motivation is when I have the opportunity to hear from survivors of human trafficking tat employees survivors out there and hearing their stories hearing their strength, hearing the success, and hearing how positive their life is based on the impact of being able to get outta that life. And who knows, you know sometimes we hear from them that was, it was a, a, a, you know, convenience store personnel that made that phone call.

(39:49):
Sometimes we’ve heard that it’s a driver. And so to me it matters to that one person, you know? I think this is a, an issue that’s continuing to grow, but it’s all the more reason why, you know, we need to have the conversation today, why you and I are doing this, this, this movement here. Why we’re, why we’re encouraging others out there because it matters to, to that one. And, and again I have more than one example out there, but even if it was just that one hearing that impact, hearing how it really changed their life because someone just became aware of an issue and stepped in and got involved and made and played their part that that’s why I’ll continue to do this work. I don’t think there’s anything else El else I would do. As hard as it may be, as as discouraging as it as it can be I do think there’s hope and making a huge difference, even if it’s that one person.

Fight The New Drug (40:44):
Yeah. Thank you. It, it has been so nice to hear from you and and hear your perspective on this and hear that even though you’re really in the trenches with this, you do have hope. I think it’s encouraging and it’s an encouraging reminder to our listeners that really all efforts, even if they seem small even just going through a training, learning about the things to watch out for being more aware can make a huge impact in the lives of individuals who are being exploited. Will you tell us a little bit about the resources Traffic Truckers Against Trafficking has?

Louie (41:18):
Yeah, so Truckers, againsts Trafficking has been around for 15 years now. We started kind of with the long hauler truckers, we’ve really morphed to cover other areas of transportation, hence kind of we rebranded and kind of go by tat now to encompass some of those other transportation sectors there. And so, you know, for those, whether you’re related to or have a touch piece in transportation, almost all of us take it at some point or another, or it’s involved in some way. So we have our website, which is tat nonprofit.org or truckers against trafficking.org. And there’s a number of resources. We have our training videos, we also have all of our printed materials and that there’s a huge variety of, that uncovers all sections within transportation. All of our materials are free of charge. We have those both printed and digital versions and various languages like English, Spanish and French Canadian.

(42:14):
we do operate in the United States, Canada, and Mexico. And although most of us are, are mostly remote, there’s a lot of communities throughout the United States that are involved in partnering with our organization. You know, going back to your question there in regards to impact and change over the 15 years, and though I haven’t been the full 15 years with tat, I do know just in my short time and then within our organization, we’ve really seen a change within the transportation industry, I think for a long time. And, and, and people would probably agree as, as they’re listening and watching this is that, you know, truckers and the transportation industry and truck stops have this kind of, this negative view or this shady view people, it was a place that people just didn’t feel comfortable or gross or dirty. And I, and I, I wanna encourage people out there that that’s really changed, that we’ve really been able to infiltrate this industry, that this industry is really understanding this message and, and really and, and encompassing it and embodying it. And I do feel that we’re seeing a huge change as it relates to the issue of forced prostitution and human trafficking within transportation from the highest levels. And we’re talking about the American Trucking Association to the, the government entities that enforce this all the way down to the drivers. You know, they’re hearing that, you know, I’m a, we often hear this, I’m a trucker against trafficking, and these drivers are really proud to know that they, they play a role in such a big issue in society today.

Fight The New Drug (43:44):
Well, thank you so much, Louie. It is an honor to work alongside you in this movement. We’re so grateful for tat and all of the efforts you’ve, you’ve put into combating human trafficking. I would encourage, again, any of our listeners to please go check out your resources and be sure to subscribe to the Consider Before Consuming podcast if you’d like to hear more conversations like this.

Louie (44:04):
Thank you so much. It was a pleasure and an honor as well.

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Outro (44:41):
Thanks for joining us on this episode of Consider Before Consuming. Consider Before Consuming is brought to you by Fight the new Drug. Fight The New Drug, as a non-religious and non legislative organization that exists to provide individuals the opportunity to make an informed decision regarding pornography by raising awareness on its harmful effects, using only science, facts and personal accounts. Check out the episode notes for resources mentioned in this episode. If you find this podcast helpful, consider subscribing and leaving a review. Thanks again for listening. We invite you to increase your self-awareness look both ways, check your blind spots and consider before consuming.