Intro (00:11):
In this episode, we sit down with Seth Gehle, an author, speaker, and survivor to hear his remarkable story of resilience. Seth shares his journey of overcoming a traumatic childhood growing up in a household filled with violence, addiction, and instability. Seth experienced years of abuse that shaped his early life. [00:00:30] In this candid conversation, he shares how he found the courage to report his abuser, the role of pornography in shaping his perceptions and the long road to healing. With that, let’s jump into the conversation. We hope you enjoy this episode of Consider Before Consuming.

Fight The New Drug (00:51):
Well, Seth, thank you so much for joining us on the Considerable Before Consuming podcast today. We’re grateful for your time. You have such a unique perspective on these issues [00:01:00] and we’re grateful that you’re willing to talk about them and, and share what you’ve been through with our listeners. So, to get started, can you share a bit about yourself and the work that you do?

Seth (01:12):
Yeah. So right now, well, I guess to introduce myself, my name is Seth Gehle . I’m a I’m an author, a newly published author. I just published my memoir and I’m also a public speaker, motivational speaker, kind of do that kind of thing as well. Travel, speak, kinda share my story for a lot of reasons. Mostly [00:01:30] to inspire, educate, motivate, kind of those advocate, those kind of four rounds. Aside from that, my nine to five is I just, I work in the construction in industry, the commercial industry. And then I’m a husband. I’m a father of two. You know, work out, do the juujitsu, have some hobbies on the side. And then the biggest thing is, you know, just trying to share my story for others to help others kind of find this path to hope [00:02:00] and healing and overcoming adversity and understanding like the other side of life after you’ve gone through some sort of adversity. So that’s a little bit about me and, and what I do.

Fight The New Drug (02:10):
Amazing. And we’re so glad to get to talk to you today. Obviously a lot has happened that has led you to the point that you’re at now. You share about it in your memoir and in some of your public speaking. Just to start at the beginning, can you start by sharing with us what were your family was like growing up? kind [00:02:30] of start at the beginning.

Seth (02:32):
Yeah, it’s a very long story. So I’ll, I’ll sum it up for you quickly. But, you know in, in total, I grew up in a very broken hou household. Okay. My, my mother was a single mother of three kids. There was drugs and violence for as long as I can remember. My father, he nearly killed my mother when I was about one or two. He, he stabbed her behind the ear and almost killed her. So he went [00:03:00] to prison for basically most of my, most of my life, I’ve, I’ve seen him in and out of my life, but I didn’t get to formally meet my father until I was probably about maybe seven or eight, and I met him in prison. So I don’t have any like of these happy, positive memories with mom or dad growing up. I don’t have like, the memories of throwing the football in the front yard or riding a bike or nothing like that.

(03:26):
It was all very traumatic. And you know, the, the, the home, [00:03:30] when you grow up with a single mother and three kids, you know, it’s going to be hard anyways. And so because of that, you know, I was bullied a lot. We were very poor a lot of violence, a lot of drugs, like I said. And as I got older, the physical abuse kind of picked up. So my mom became very physically abusive around maybe nine, 10 years old. And then that’s when the harder drugs were introduced into the home. So, like, cracking cocaine, for example. I was exposed to a [00:04:00] lot of drug addicts. And then just the living conditions were bad too. You know, we were on welfare, so we, we didn’t have a lot of food in the first place. But then in addition to that, you know, my mother would sell our welfare for drugs like the food stamp money.

(04:15):
And then I, I slept in a bedroom for probably a year or two at least, where I had a, a hole in my ceiling that was probably four feet by three feet or so exposed to the elements, the rain, snow, wind, cold air, [00:04:30] all the good things that I grew up in northwest Ohio. So it was, it was pretty brutal. You know, so it was a very, very tough upbringing. And when I was, when I was about 12 years old, my, my mother went to jail for basically stabbed her boyfriend over some drugs in the bathroom. And she was taken away from us. I bounced around several houses for four or five months, and I ended up at my grandparents’ house. My grandparents adopted me. The adoption officially went through [00:05:00] when I was 13. And then from 13 until I graduated high school, I had a, you know, a very stable, loving, caring, like safe household for the last five years, I would say, of my childhood. But the first, you know, 13 years, the household was terrible. In combination with a lot of the other traumatic moments, you know, that, that I’m sure we’ll get into. And

Fight The New Drug (05:23):
On top of all of those things, you also experienced consistent sexual abuse as a child. So, you know, looking [00:05:30] back, can you share how the abuse you experience started? And throughout all of the experiences you had, what factors you think contributed to that sexual abuse as well, and, and how long that abuse went on?

Seth (05:42):
Yeah. So, you know, the first time I was molested or experienced sexual abuse, I was five years old. It was from a babysitter’s teenage son. And that only happened a few times. I don’t really remember a whole lot. I think it was more of just exposure. He was kind of looking at me, [00:06:00] making me look at him, and then maybe a little bit of touching here and there. But it wasn’t anything, you know, extreme, for lack of a better term, you know, it’s all very unfortunate and tragic, you know. But in the, in the grand scheme of things, this, this moment was not extreme. Un unfortunately, when I was 10 years old, due to the nature of my household grown, you know, no father, no role models. A child will go look outside of the home for [00:06:30] love and affection and attention, right?

(06:32):
And so they usually turn to gangs, drugs, violence. I was doing all of those things as well. I was, I mean, I was, I was a hell raiser as a young man. But in, in that, I, I had always found kids that were older than me, 3, 4, 5 years older than me that I would hang out with. And when I was 10, I met this kid. For the sake of this story, I’ll, I’ll say his name’s Jacob. It’s a pseudonym for him to protect his identity. But I met Jacob, and Jacob had an older friend, and after a few months of hanging out with Jacob, this, [00:07:00] this older man walks in the house. And he was, he was about 30 years old when I met him, and I was only 10. And basically he asked me a few questions, which were, you know, do you like football?

(07:12):
Do you like video games? Do you like pizza? Well, why don’t you come up and hang out with me and Jacob? And so I went to his house to hang out with him, and he was the first friend that I had ever had that, that you know, had a car, had money, could buy me things, buy us food, you know. So we went to his house, we played video games, we had multiple game [00:07:30] systems, TVs, all the foods you could eat, pizza, pop, energy drinks, you know, there were no rules, so we could stay up all night long, play games, eat whatever, you know, it was like a perfect place to go, especially when your Monday through Friday was quite literally just hell, you know? And that man, eventually after about a month or two the grooming process had taken, its, its course essentially, and he began to sexually abuse me.

(07:59):
It escalated. [00:08:00] I, I would say very quickly, but he was also very strategic and just slow, and just very patient about the process which I think most of ’em are. And you know, he, he knew where I came from. He knew what my home life was like, and he likely knew that he was my only source of like, reprieve or, you know, some sort of calmness or protection. So he, he abused that situation manipulated me, groomed me, abused me, basically [00:08:30] every single weekend from the time I was 10 until almost 16 years old. I was about a month away from being 16. And I mean, when I say like, every weekend, I mean like Friday night, Saturday night for almost six straight years. Like, it was just, it was brutal. And, you know, I won’t get into the details of it all here, but I mean, it, I, I experienced every piece of abuse or assault, whatever [00:09:00] verb or kind of word you want to give it.

(09:04):
I experienced it all. You know, I had my, my innocence completely ripped away from me by the time I was 13 years old. And I, and I can remember today, you know, sitting in his bathroom after the worst thing that you could possibly do to a kid. And I remember sitting there and just crying and just thinking to myself like, I don’t have a mother. I don’t have a father, you know, now this thing has happened to me, and like, what are people gonna think about me? You know, what are people gonna think? Like they’re gonna think there’s something wrong with me. I [00:09:30] have some sort of disease. Like, why is my life turning out like this? And, you know, the abuse went on for almost three more years after that you know, before I eventually put an end to it. So yeah, it, it was a lot, you know, about almost six years, you know, several hundred occasions, occasions of abuse or, or some sort of, you know, yeah. So it was a lot. It was, it was a lot to go through.

Fight The New Drug (09:55):
I’m so sorry that you had to experience that. And I think it’s [00:10:00] I’m so grateful that you are willing to share this story because it is something that we know other people do experience abuse as well, and it’s not something that’s talked about enough. And many people would be surprised to, to learn how many people are experiencing situations like this. But I mean, truly to have gone through everything that you have and to, to be using your voice now, to share your story, to help ensure individuals can learn about this. And, and if, you know, we can help anyone who’s in a similar situation [00:10:30] have access to resources, we wanna be sure to do that as well. And we will include some resources in these show notes. I wanna ask you a little bit about your experience with pornography. You know, we have research that shows how pornography normalizes sexual violence and, and all of these things. But in your lived experience, did you have access to pornography as a child? and if you did, you know, did what you were seeing shape your perceptions of the abuse that you experienced throughout your, your adolescence?

Seth (10:58):
Yeah. So I didn’t realize [00:11:00] how detrimental that was until recently in like my journey of understanding all of these things. But yeah, I was exposed to porn at five years old. My, my mother, she would work during the day, so me and my sisters would be at home alone. We were, you know, we, we had to take care of ourselves. And part of that is, you know, you dig around the house a little bit, you check in the closets and you look under the whatever. And we found my mother, she had a she had like a porn collection, essentially of like VHS tapes, and [00:11:30] we started watching them. And, you know, you can imagine as a 5-year-old, it’s like compelling, you know, it’s, you just kind of hooked to the screen. You’re trying to figure out what’s going on. In fact, I, you know what?

(11:40):
We took those videos out and we were showing the kids in the neighborhood, and then Ward got out, and we got in trouble for that. But during that time, at just five years old, like, I had attempted to have sex with a another young girl in my neighborhood who, you know, she was the same age, five, six years old. And, and I remember that to this day, you know, just kind of being in a closet with this girl, and [00:12:00] I didn’t know what I was doing, and we were fully clothed, but I was trying to do, replicate what I had seen, you know? and that, you know, around that time was about the first time I got, I was molested as well. And so, you know, it’s hard for me to remember being five years old, but I can imagine that there was some level of like, normalcy or like, you know, there was just, it’s, you’re like desensitized, right?

(12:29):
When you see maybe somebody [00:12:30] who’s naked. And as I got older around, probably seven or eight years old, one of the details I often forget is I lived with an aunt and an uncle, and while they never exposed us to porn my aunt would often walk around the house completely naked. And so it was like this, like weird, like, look at me, kind of thing. Like, she’d come downstairs in the mornings completely naked, and we would just be sitting there, you know, eating breakfast or watching cartoons, whatever, you know. And [00:13:00] so for her to be fully exposed and like nude to like three little kids was very strange. And then unfortunately, you know, around the age of 10, which is really when the sexual abuse really picked up with, with the the pedophile. Around that time though, my mom, she, she knew that I was going in her room and like finding her porn or something to that effect.

(13:25):
And so at 10 years old, she just gifted me a DVD and said, I don’t care. [00:13:30] Like, you’re gonna watch it anyways, so why would I hide this from you? You know, just watch it here. And as a kid, you know, you can imagine you’re like, oh, wow, like, that’s awesome. Like, yeah, my mom just gives me whatever I want to watch, you know, and, and I can watch this as much as I want. And I did. I watched it, you know, I, I watched it all the time, and I was just infatuated with it. And so, at 10 years old, when I would go to school, you know, you, you’re walking around and you’re looking at girls and, and you have this, this completely misconceived like, [00:14:00] or mis this bad you know, perception of, of what, who people are, you know, I was sexualizing girls at a, at a very young age.

(14:09):
even women, like I, I, I became infatuated with like, my teachers. I just had this like sexual this hypersexual mentality about it all, you know? And so yeah, being, I, I didn’t, like I said, I didn’t realize like how severe that was. And when I tell people today that my [00:14:30] mom just gifted me porn at 10, like, like full on DVDs they’re like blown away. And to me, I was like, you didn’t, you weren’t watching that at 8, 9, 10 years old, you know? And so yeah, it is crazy to think about how much it affected my childhood, and then in combination with the sexual abuse, how much it affected me in my adulthood with relationships and, and you know, even being married and, and having a wife. So

Fight The New Drug (14:57):
Yeah. Tell me a little bit about that. Do you feel like [00:15:00] how do you feel like that exposure really impacted your understanding of relationships and, and your self-worth?

Seth (15:08):
very transactional, to say the least. Like, everything was very transactional. I am, honestly, I, I, and I’m not proud of this, like, this is like very shameful for me to admit, but I am so lucky I never violated somebody beyond, you know, repair or something that was like, you know, criminal, you know, because [00:15:30] I was a very motivated young man as far as like having sex goes and, and, and those kind of things with women. So after I reported my abuser, that’s when I started hanging out with women or, or girls and, and high school. And everything was just about sex. I just, I just assumed that when we hung out, we would hang out and we’d have sex. And so I was very pushy, very touchy. I was just, I was just obsessed with this thing. And, you know, part of that could be trying [00:16:00] to overcome the sexual abuse thing as well, of like, I’m a man and I’m not gay, and like, I’m trying to prove to myself something, I don’t remember any of those feelings, but I know that is common.

(16:11):
but, but more so, I was just, I was obsessed with, with sex. I just, I thought that everything was transactional. So when I would take a girl on a date, I would take her on a date, and I would just assume that like, okay, this bit, like, we go back and, and we do this now, right? And, and that just wasn’t the case, obviously. And, [00:16:30] and fortunately for me and for them that it never went anywhere. You know, I, I never did anything that was crossing the lines. I just was never a gentleman towards women ever. You know, I was, I was kind enough to get them to talk to me and to go on a date and, and all of those things. But as soon as like, we get behind closed doors, you know, the real intent would show, you know, and the girls would catch onto it, and then it would just be a bad night from there, right?

(16:54):
So you know, like I said, I’m fortunate enough that I, I never violated [00:17:00] anything because I know that so many people probably do push that boundary, and it’s, it’s a lack of understanding and a lack of control, probably due to what they’ve been exposed to or what’s happened to them. And so I guess the tail end of that as I got, as I met my wife and got married to her the less the temptation, right? The temptation to you know, I can imagine for, for men or, or women who have, who’ve gone through this, the temptation to cheat or the temptation to, to turn to porn, [00:17:30] or the temptation to look or talk or the, even just the temptation to think about these things, you know, these doing these things with other people. So, yeah, for me it’s been, I have to focus on like loving my wife, and the more that I do that, and the more that I appreciate her and like turn to gratitude, the less the like, negative thoughts that I have.

Fight The New Drug (17:51):
Yeah. Thank you for sharing all of that. I, I wanna ask you a few more questions about your healing process at the end of this, because it’s so apparent that you’ve [00:18:00] done so much work to be able to get to the point where you can speak about these experiences in the way that you are. And it is so important and needed, because I don’t think we’re having enough conversations about this. So, again, I just wanna thank you for that. Can you share, you mentioned you reported your abuser. Can you share a little bit about that experience with seeking help to, to end that abuse, essentially?

Seth (18:23):
Yeah, so the whole reporting situation was a very, just, it’s a very crazy story. Long [00:18:30] story short is I was at the guy’s house on a weekend, and basically he had started to groom one of my younger friends who was hanging out with us. I had seen it happening, and that was the first time that I had ever seen somebody else go back to that guy’s bed while I was at his apartment. And I just couldn’t stomach it. Like, when I saw him go back there, I couldn’t handle it. And I knew that I could go through those things and I could endure it, and, but I knew how bad I felt. I knew how horrible it felt, and I just could not imagine [00:19:00] seeing my younger friend go through that. And so, truthfully, that was the catalyst. I, I actually messaged my friend Jacob, who introduced me to that man, you know, six years prior.

(19:10):
Jacob at this point was in college, and I messaged Jacob and I said, Hey, man, I need to talk to you tomorrow. I I go home on Sunday Jacob shows up my up at my house, and I can’t tell Jacob, like, I can’t tell him I’m, I have fear of denial, rejection all of the fears of like reporting, right? And, you know, a lot of people may [00:19:30] ask like, why don’t you report? Well, as a young man, I partake, I, I, I took, I I was an active participant, right? And a, and, and a lot of these things for six years, whether it was my fault or not. When you are the victim of that, it doesn’t matter whose fault it is. Like you were, that is something incredibly embarrassing and shameful to, to admit that happened to you, right? And there were some very disgusting things that had happened.

(19:59):
And [00:20:00] so that’s part of the reason, like, when you report somebody, you’re not only reporting that person, but you’re telling on yourself. You’re, you’re letting the world know like, what has happened to you and like, what I’ve done. And, you know, there’s, there’s, there’s words that people use for, for people like me, you know? And so, and they’re not good, you know? And so I, I was so scared, and so I couldn’t say the words. I was pacing back and forth in my room. And Jacob breaks the silence and he says, you know, he says, Mondo touched you, didn’t he? And the guy’s, the [00:20:30] guy’s nickname was Mondo. And I fell to the floor and started crying, and after a few moments, Jacob breaks the silence again. And he says he did it to me too. And I couldn’t believe it. I mean, at that moment, I had turned from myself to Jacob, and I just like, I was like, oh, my, like, what?

(20:47):
Like, I couldn’t believe it, you know? And so we, we talked for a few minutes and he said, you know, what do you wanna do? Do you wanna report him or do you wanna keep it a secret? And I said, no, we gotta get this guy. Like, he’s about to take this path down the road to, [00:21:00] you know, to our younger friend. And so we go out, we told my grandparents you know, my grandma broke down and was crying. And, and my grandpa calls the police. We go to the hospital, oddly enough, the police officer who shows up to inve to, for the investigation his wife was my teacher a few years prior. And I had also met the guy a few years prior. He was a, he was a, he was a war, he is a combat veteran. So he showed up at the schools for like holidays and stuff like that.

(21:27):
so I’d already fortunately enough [00:21:30] for me, we had some sort of like commonalities. So we clicked, and Chad couples with his names, and Chad sits down with me, and he said, he says to me, Seth, you know, I know this is hard, but the more you tell me now, the less we’re gonna have to do later. And so I, I told this grown man who I just met, basically the worst things that happened to me, and, and very explicit detail. And that was, that was extremely hard to do that, that was like, I, I just remember like [00:22:00] feeling disgusting and empty, you know, just feeling horrible. And Chad sat there, took all the notes, went and arrested the man, got a confession out of him that night. A couple months later, you know, he, they offered him a plea deal.

(22:14):
He was sentenced with 11 federal charges. They offered him a plea deal. And so in 2011, he was sentenced to 10 years in prison for about 10 years of abuse between me and me and the other kid, Jacob. Fortunately [00:22:30] enough, he died in prison in 2019, about a year or so before he was supposed to get out. And, you know, the, the whole reporting process went very well for me. I say that, you know, my advice to those who do report or don’t is that justice is only gonna do you so much, you know the justice did not fix me, right? This guy got 10 years in prison. I have a life sentence, okay? And so you have to focus on yourself. These external factors and things that are outside of your control, [00:23:00] there’s nothing you can do about them.

(23:01):
So if you’re focused on like, whether this person burns in hell or gets a hundred years in prison none of those things were gonna help you. And so with the reporting, it was it fortunate for me? Yes, it was. Did it fix anything? It did not. In fact, I did not do any healing or any therapy. And to this day, I’ve, I’ve never been to therapy. And so I don’t encourage that. That’s part of the storytelling is I wish back [00:23:30] in my teen years when I was 15 years old, and I reported him, that somebody would’ve really advocated and been like, looks at like, you need to go to therapy, because if you don’t like, these things are likely to follow up in your life. Like, these things are gonna happen. These are the effects. And it’s almost proven. And, and what I know now, it is, it’s very true. You know? So looking back, I would’ve gotten help. I would’ve gotten therapy then. And it would’ve saved me a lot of heartache in my adulthood and everything that I’ve kind of experienced in my adulthood dealing with, [00:24:00] you know, imposter syndrome and identity issues, and a marriage and being a father. And like all of those things were affected by my childhood and, and not getting any help from it.

Fight The New Drug (24:14):
And it’s remarkable to be at the place that you are now without having had therapy. But can you tell us a little bit about what your process from healing did look like kind of after that initial stage of reporting? I know you did mention some of the ways it affected dating or, or relationships, [00:24:30] but just tell us really what that process looked like and, and how you really got to the place that you are now, where you’re able to share this in your book and in your public speaking and, and so openly like this?

Seth (24:41):
What I had to do was, I was living in misery, okay? I, I was living in an absolute pain and suffering. It’s like being in a basement that’s on fire like that, that where I was living for a very long time. And a lot of people throughout my life, they put a ladder down for me. [00:25:00] I was unwilling to climb out, basically, because you are comfortable down there, but also that ladder hurts, okay? When the ladder comes down, it gets hot, and then you, for you to get out of that hill, that burning basement, I mean, you have got to grab each rung and climb yourself out of there. And it hurts. I mean, it hurts really bad, okay? And so I can empathize for those who don’t want to fix themselves, who don’t want to heal, because they, it, it doesn’t feel [00:25:30] right. Like they’re so used to this misery and this pain and the suffering, and, and like, they don’t deserve the love.

(25:35):
They don’t deserve, you know, family or relationships or positivity or happiness. Like, they don’t deserve any of those things. Like, that’s how you feel. And that’s how I felt for so long. Fortunately enough for me, basically what happened is I came across another man’s story. His name’s Clark Fredericks. He’s got a crazy story. I came across his story on, on a channel called Soft Red Underbelly. [00:26:00] And Clark was the first man that I had seen talk about his case and the way that he did, and which was very powerful to me. So at that point, I said, okay, like, I need to write a book. I, I like, this is it, I need to write a book. I need to tell my story. So I started writing my book in which I actually deleted three times, because in the, in the writing process, I just told myself like, nobody’s gonna care.

(26:23):
This is not gonna mean anything to anybody. Like, my story is just a drop in the bucket, hap, you know, I’m not, I’m not special. And so I, [00:26:30] I, in writing my book, I finally pulled the trigger on it, and while I was writing my book, I was having some massive anxiety about publishing it and everybody finding out at the same time, and all these different things. And I just, I had a conversation with a, with a, with one of my coaches, and, you know, it was a lot of like, control what you can, you know, you can’t, you can’t control the things that are outside of your control. It never, it’s never gonna be perfect. There’s never a perfect time to do anything. [00:27:00] There’s never a perfect time to tell your story. There’s never a perfect time for this. Write a book, speak, whatever, right?

(27:05):
So just do it. Just do it. And then like, forget the rest, like, let you know. And so I, so I just, I sat down with my coach and a couple other people. We set a couple cameras up, and I poured my heart out on a camera, and we put it up on YouTube. And you know, they got a few thousand views. But the biggest thing was, like most of my friends and family, they were like, just reaching [00:27:30] out to me like, holy crap, Seth. Like, I can’t believe this. Like, you know, I’m this army combat veteran, jiujitsu, ultra running guy. Like, this doesn’t happen to these big bearded men, you know? and so, so the response that I got was incredible. And then as I, I just started doing podcasts. I just started like asking to do interviews and, and sharing my story.

(27:51):
And I, I share it very raw and like, kind of forthcoming and just kind of like, just, I tell it how it is in a way. And that seems to resonate with people because I’m, [00:28:00] I’m able to say the words that a lot of people don’t wanna say. And I know that that is healing because of the people. I’ve done that for me. And so for me to be able to do that for others, I know how powerful it is. And to this day, I get messages all the time and, and, you know, emails and messages and comments of like, you’ve saved my life. And, and I’ve given speeches in rooms at conferences where men that are 10, 15, 20 years older than me are coming up to me and telling me the deepest, darkest secrets that they’ve never told [00:28:30] anybody. You know, if you don’t know, the average age of reporting is 53 years old.

(28:35):
So these men will come to me, confide to me. And so my healing journey has been kind of like, twofold. I’ve kind of been like, healing for myself and through myself, but also through, through the impact that I’ve made on other people. Like that is, that is hands down the most, it, it is, it is the most, like, beautiful thing about it is when somebody approaches you or sends you a message or, you know, they wanna buy [00:29:00] a, a copy of my book, and they want me to put a, a personal note in that book for them, like, like, that means so much more to me than, than anything else. And you know, I guess speaking has been one of the biggest factors in my healing for me specifically, because I process a lot through speaking. So the more I talk about something, the more I start to figure it out and start to understand it and start to reframe it.

(29:26):
in addition to that education honestly [00:29:30] was like one of the biggest things. So, like Dr. Bruce Perry he’s wrote two, he wrote a bunch of books, I think, but he wrote two books that are, that completely shaped re reframe my mindset, which were what happened to you and the boy who was raised as a dog. Those two books, I read those two earlier this year. And I mean, it, it quite literally felt like my, like, heart would like being stitched back together. Like, I was just like, oh my goodness. Like, I understand why I am the way I am, and that it’s okay, [00:30:00] and that it’s, it’s, you know, I’m maybe damaged or broken in ways, but it’s normal. Like, what has happened to me for, for what has happened to me is normal. And when I learned about the effects of childhood trauma, neglect, and abuse and all those things, just learning about it, that really helped put the puzzle together for me.

(30:17):
and now I’m able to process so much more, like with, with what’s happening with other people. And so I would say processing by virtue of speaking, whether it’s to a therapist or to your family, [00:30:30] or to the wall, or to your phone. But then also educating yourself through reading. I think reading about it, reading other stories, it’s just, it’s incredibly helpful. I that the, the learning piece for me has been the most therapeutic because like, I, I, I had this mentality with this kind, kind of was kind of why did do jitsu and kind of why I was running ultra marathons of like, I am like, strong and tough because of what I had been through. I’m not [00:31:00] weak because of it. And so I had, I was building like this, this strength and like this shell of armor, right? and while I was becoming stronger and tougher and doing good things it wasn’t really healing me.

(31:14):
It was just proving to myself that I could accomplish things. I could do things. And so that’s what the education piece of it did for me. Once I read those, those two books, and I read The Body Keeps Score as well, but really the two books [00:31:30] by Dr. Perry those are my two off the bat I recommend to everybody. Because once I was able to understand trauma and understand what it does to you and what it does to children and how it affects your relationships, I was able to like look at myself and, and as I’m like listening to these books, he would talk about these behaviors and these things that he would see out of people. And it gave me a lot of like, understanding of myself. And once I got to that point, I mean, I was like, okay, cool. Like, I, okay, this [00:32:00] makes so much more sense now.

(32:01):
it helped me to like turn all that resentment into I gratitude, right? So you learn to stop. I would, I, I would have so much resentment for everybody in my life, no matter, it didn’t matter how, how long I knew you for five seconds or for five years, I would hate you because you had both your parents, you weren’t sexually abused, you didn’t grow up around drugs and violence. You [00:32:30] didn’t go to Afghanistan. I could find a reason to hate you. I mean, I, I, I found reasons to hate my, my own wife for several years, you know, she worked out, but she didn’t work out way that I did to the great mother, but she wasn’t a parent the way that I parented. You know, she didn’t do the laundry like I wanted it to be done, you know? So I, I just, I could hate anybody for any reason.

(32:49):
And I found out that like, that resentment comes from, you know, that that insecurity. And so once I like started learning all of those things, I was able to turn [00:33:00] and repackage all of that into gratitude of saying, I’m so glad my wife is not a parent like me, because my kids need two, two parents. I’m glad that, you know, she doesn’t do the dishes sometimes or she doesn’t do the laundry sometimes because it shows me that she has this level of vulnerability that she’s able to show me. Like, she doesn’t have to be perfect around me. You know? And so for other people, I’m glad that this person has both their parents. I’m glad that they weren’t abused. I’m glad that you didn’t have to experience these things. Like that’s a good thing. So that’s what, like, and, and I still read today, like [00:33:30] the last book I just read was The Four Agreements, and it’s a very short book, but it’s incredible.

(33:35):
Like the four agreements in that book that they talk about, it’s like so therapeutic to me. Like, I read those books, I read those, those messages that like little bit of knowledge, and I sit back and I’m, I just sit back and I’m just like, I gotta soak the pin for a second. And because it’s, it’s the most, some of it is the most incredible advice, and it’s, that is what is it, it’s very therapeutic to me. So I don’t have anything against therapy. Like I said, if it, if it works for you [00:34:00] I think it’s great. I, I, if religion works for you, then, then then go and, and pray and, and do all that. I’m not a religious person. I’ve never been to therapy. Those things are just not my cup of tea. But for those who it is, I, I mean, heal, heal however you need to heal, so long as it’s a positive, you know source.

Fight The New Drug (34:18):
Well, and if I can just add one thing to that as well, I think it’s important to note that even though you said, you know, I wish that when I was younger, I, I was able to access therapy right after these experiences, but you, you didn’t, right? And so many people aren’t [00:34:30] able to. And so I think it’s important to note that therapy is not accessible to everyone. Yes. And even though you know, it can be a great tool and it can be a, a great resource and it can help so many people. I love therapy. You know, we’re a big proponent of therapy, but it doesn’t mean it’s the only way. And you are very clearly proof of that. And I think to know that there are books available and, and books are free at the library, right? Like, there are, there are ways that anyone can get started at kind of digging in [00:35:00] and, and healing.

(35:01):
But it is important to do that in a way that’s safe for each person individually. So for some people to be able to access that trauma, you know, having a licensed therapist can be great, or making sure there’s someone else in your life who can be a support system as things are triggered can be great. But it isn’t the only way. And I think it is great to know that, especially for anyone who’s feeling like, I would really love to start healing, but I can’t afford therapy, or I can’t you know, I can’t afford the amount of therapy. I think I would need to be able to navigate this traumatic event [00:35:30] or, or traumatic years of my life. So I think it is important that we have these conversations and, and I’m so grateful that you’re to speak about it in the way that you are as well, because it does really show that even without therapy, which I think is assumed by many, you would need to be able to handle the traumas you’ve experienced in your life.

(35:48):
you can make the progress that you’ve made. And it’s not to say you’re healed and we can put a stamp on it and say, you’re good to go done. You know, none of us is probably really ever all the way healed [00:36:00] from the things we’re experiencing. But I think it’s so inspiring and motivating and encouraging to see that you are able to speak with so much hope and, and with resilience that is a skill that you’ve cultivated, right? And to be able to share in such a vulnerable and transparent way that is going to help so many people who are listening. We know the power of sharing true stories. You just mentioned that listening to it someone else’s true story is the thing that gave you the courage to, to speak out and share your story. And there’s no right or wrong answer to this, but I am just curious [00:36:30] to know, since the first day that you told someone about the abuse, since the very first day, you spoke openly about this before reporting, et cetera, in everyday sense. Has there ever been a time you’ve regretted having, having told someone or having spoken out about this?

Seth (36:45):
Never. And yeah, I’ll, I’ll tell you this, for anybody who’s listening to, I don’t ever want to come off as like I encourage everybody to do what they got to do to heal. Okay? [00:37:00] But don’t ever look at me and put me on a pedestal or anybody else. I’m not special. I am just comfortable enough to do this, right? And so I think that some people think that like they have to tell their stories publicly because like this other person did it, and if they did it publicly, then like, I should be able to do it. And, and that’s just not the case. Okay? For, for some people it’s a very natural process. Like, like it was for me, for others, it is not. So [00:37:30] I guess with that being said, I just, I am n I’m never, I’ve never regretted telling a single person, I guess, and I’ve gotten a lot of crazy comments, as you can imagine.

(37:40):
you’ll get those things right. When you tell your story publicly, you will get ridicule, you’ll get comments, you’ll get negative feedback. It is what it is. So if you’re gonna do it publicly, be prepared for those things and just, just ignore it, right? It, it, it shouldn’t make you mad, but it shouldn’t make you obviously happy, but it should just have no impact on you, right? Because [00:38:00] those are people that are just saying things. But yeah, I just, I don’t ever want anybody to look at me and think that, like, Seth, that the maybe a hero or something. I can understand being inspiring or motivating or those things, but I guess the point is, I don’t want anybody to feel any pressure like you are, just because you don’t tell, you tell one person versus me telling the world I’m, we are the same. We are not, we are on the same level. So just wanna be clear about that.

Fight The New Drug (38:30):
[00:38:30] Yeah, that’s so well said. I think sometimes, you know, when we are on a podcast platform and people are listening to this, it can feel like, okay, the way I make a difference is to share this in, in this space. But I think it’s important to remind people that just having support to go through something can be beneficial, even if it is telling one person, even if it is telling a therapist who will tell no one else, and no one in your personal life has to know. But in your case opening up was good and, and led to reporting and led to the support that you needed which we do know isn’t the experience [00:39:00] everyone has in reporting, but I am glad to know it was the experience that you had and that you are able to share this in this way now because inevitably there are people listening who can relate to elements of your story and, and who have needed to hear this. So I’m grateful that you’re willing to do this on this platform. And also a reminder to others that there are people out here who wanna listen to you and, and support you through what you’ve gone through. I wanna ask you a little bit about, you mentioned as some of your hobbies include, you know, jiujitsu [00:39:30] and you’ve done ultra marathons, and I wanna ask you about how pushing your limits through these hobbies or activities you know, how has physical endurance training played a role in your recovery?

Seth (39:44):
So this is a what I have learned now is a cautionary tale. I’ve always told this like very pridefully and been like, yeah, I do juujitsu and I run ultra marathons. And you know, as a combat veteran and like did all these things that were hard [00:40:00] and tough and, and make you strong, right? I work out every day and I wake up early and I stay up late and I grind, and I’m just like constantly growing and I’m, I’m just trying to win, right? It sounds like very heroic. I just recently kind of realized that I’ve been running my whole life and I’ve been doing things my entire life to put myself in the fire. And while those things can certainly be good and you can build and, and [00:40:30] become stronger and tougher and all of those things, and they are good addictions, you could say to have, they can also be detrimental and, and, and hold you back, right?

(40:42):
I started running ultra marathons because I saw somebody else do it. I saw one of my friends attempt one, and I’ve never been a runner. I hate running, in fact. And, and that was the exact reason why I did it. I wanted to do something that I absolutely hated. And I think the initial stages were, [00:41:00] were out of good intent. They were like, I would, I wanna do something really cool, really powerful, right? But it quickly, I mean, and by quickly, I mean, I ran seven ultra marathons in nine months on basically little to no training. You know, like most people will train for three, six months to a year to run an ultra, which is, starts at 31 miles your ultra two. So I ran a few 31 milers, a 40, 50, 60, and a hundred miler. So it, it, yeah, it quickly went from [00:41:30] I want to do something cool.

(41:33):
I was addicted to the, I was addicted to the suffering. I was so infatuated with like, how much pain can I put my body in through? Okay. And I, I ran a hundred miler last noon. That was the last one that I ran. Which that was a very emotional and very powerful and painful moment that I, that I, I was able to accomplish something that, that took me to a place where I had to think about all the things that I had been through. [00:42:00] And that’s what I was trying to do. I was trying to get to a place with my life where I would have to pull from the darkest moments of my life and tell myself like, I have gone through this. I will get through whatever obstacle it is in front of me. And when you’re running an ultra marathon, it’s just one step in front of the other.

(42:14):
And so, you know, the, the cautionary part of that kind of came recently, I wanted to run a 250 miler, and I started training for it again, but my legs, they hurt really bad [00:42:30] because I’ve got some conditions and my calves, whatever, they, it, they hurt. It’s extremely painful for me to run. And that’s well known. Like everybody who knows me knows that my legs suck. And so, like, they just hurt really bad when I run. But part of me is like, I love the pain, right? I love the suffering. I love waking up at four in the morning and running when it’s 20 degrees out. And like, I love if it’s, if it’s the more miserable it gets, the more I want to go out and do it. And so recently I’ve had to just kind of, [00:43:00] kind of call that truce, I guess, with myself and say like, Hey, man, like, it’s okay.

(43:05):
Like, you don’t have to suffer. You don’t have to do this. You don’t have to do these like, painful things just to prove your worth or how tough you are. You don’t have to do those things anymore, you know? And, and Juujitsu was very much the same thing when I started doing Juujitsu. I was training twice a day, sometimes three times a day. I was, I was training as hard as I possibly could. My elbows were hurting. I could barely, you know, move [00:43:30] my arms around. I started competing and I was winning, but I, I just wanted to, I just wanted to go full in on something and see how hard I could push myself. I wanted everybody at the gym to recognize that like s the tier multiple times Seth gets promoted fast. Seth did a, a strong tough role, right? I wanted like all this accolade of toughness, and this was all before I told anybody what happened to me, you know? And so I realized that while those things are certainly admirable, it is a cautionary tale, right? [00:44:00] Just, you don’t have to suffer unnecessarily. I, I think that there is suffering that is good and there is suffering that is bad. And, and that what I was doing eventually got to suffering just to suffer. And that is, that is not good, you know? So yeah. Cautionary tale there.

Fight The New Drug (44:19):
Yeah. And it’s almost like there are two pieces of that, right? Like maybe some of the normalization of abuse that you experienced or pain kind of led you to seek out still other ways that, that was normalized. But [00:44:30] then also on the other side, it almost sounds like maybe trying to prove this toughness or prove, you know, that you weren’t quote unquote weak or something that, you know, victims of abuse sometimes experienced the idea of, you mentioned earlier, you know, being a man who was abused by a man, and this idea of trying to correct perceptions of that. And so I think a lot of people also experience similar things to what, what you did with seeking out something or almost getting addicted [00:45:00] to something that can be kind of extreme. And I think it’s so helpful to hear what your experience with that was.

Seth (45:05):
Yeah, you, you, that’s a great point. You know, yeah, that’s a great point. You’re, I was just trying to prove, I was trying to prove things that, you know, didn’t necessarily need proven. I think it’s great to challenge yourself and to push yourself, right? And you just have to understand what are those motivations for, right? Like what, what, what is motivating you? Is it like [00:45:30] people doubting you? Is it you doubting yourself? Is it this like, self-hate worth problem that you have? You know I mean, even this morning, I’ll tell you this morning, I, I finished my workout and I got on the treadmill and I was gonna walk for the last 20 minutes. I was at the gym, and I looked at my watch and I, I had a really busy day at work. And so I was gonna, I was, I told myself, I said, well, let me, I’m, I’m gonna hop off and I’ll get to work a little early ’cause I’ve got a very busy day.

(45:56):
But then I told myself, I was like, well, somebody probably just saw me hop [00:46:00] on the treadmill, and so if I don’t walk for at least like 10 minutes, like they’re gonna be like, he just walked for two minutes and got off the treadmill. So you just, you have this like crazy, you know, thing that’s in your, you’re constantly battling this like almost imposter syndrome or this like weird self worth image, right? And at that moment, I fought that, that negative thought, and I said, I don’t care if somebody saw me get on this treadmill for two minutes, I’m getting off. And so these are the conversations that people like me, we have in our head, right? Where we’re, we’re battling this like inner dialogue. [00:46:30] And so you just have to be careful with it.

Fight The New Drug (46:33):
You’ve talked a little bit about, you know, the stereotype of who you are. You’re a big, strong, bearded combat veteran. I’m curious to know with the way porn is normalized in society, especially for men what was your experience like with pornography in the military or, or the culture around pornography in the military? And then I’m also curious to know as someone who, [00:47:00] you know, checks these boxes of this stereotype what, what advice would you give to young men about pornography now having been through what you’ve been through and having had it normalize some of the things that did normalize for you?

Seth (47:15):
So in the military, you know, the military and, and first responders in general, it is, it is a different environment. It is a different place. You are, you’re dealing with a lot of different personalities. You know, and so it, it very common, like, like [00:47:30] porn is a common thing, right? You get deployed and you go to Afghanistan for nine months and you can’t, you don’t have a girlfriend to be with or, or boyfriend to be with, right? And so what do you turn to? Right? You, you turn to porn. And so it is very common and you’ll, I mean, you know, we would joke and everybody had it. Everybody had their like, hard drives full of it and, you know, X, y, z, sharing it around and passing it around. My advice to young men or women, but, but I mean, because I’m a man, [00:48:00] I would say you have to respect women.

(48:08):
Okay. Or men, okay. You have to respect the other person. I have seen and heard so many stories in them, especially in the military, where, you know, two or three guys and a girl, they all get drunk and one thing leads to another, and then things get way outta hand very quickly because they want to reenact some sort of scene or some sort of [00:48:30] you know, fantasy, whatever, whatever it is, right? And then whether it was consensual or not, there’s this element of shame and embarrassment that comes out of it. And that can lead down a very slippery slope, you know, for both parties. Okay. And so for men, you know, without trying to sound like a stereotype, I guess I would like to tell men like, it’s not worth it, man, like, this girl that, [00:49:00] that you might be attracted to. It’s not worth it.

(49:02):
You know? I think that as a society, we are we’re so focused on like, getting to that point, you know, so quickly. And I think it is influenced by the subcultures of, of, you have a bunch of aggressive young men who want to go to war and fight. They also tend to have this infatuation with women. You know? They, they love women, they love to, to, I, I mean, that’s, that’s how I was of young man. I was in the infantry, you know, I was a soldier. Like, all the girls are gonna love me. And so you have [00:49:30] to like, keep up with the persona. And so there, there’s a lot that goes into that. So the advice would be, you know, it’s not worth it. Like just, just give it time

Fight The New Drug (49:38):
For any survivors of trauma kind of on the other side of this. And you’ve experienced so much of this I imagine at times you felt hopeless as well, but for any survivors of trauma who might be listening who, who are feeling hopeless, what message would you wanna share with them?

Seth (49:55):
You know, that’s a question that I get obviously quite often right. And I think [00:50:00] I thought about this last night because I think I’ve given this answer so many times and so many times I think I’ve lacked the necessary empathy for that person in that place. Because when you become successful or you get out of whatever situation you might be in, you might be, you run a a hundred million dollar business, and then you look at all these other starting entrepreneurs and you say, man, just do it. Just get up and do it. It’s just get up and do. Right? But then if you like, think about the times that [00:50:30] you were doing it. Like how hard was it just to freaking wake up? Like just to get outta bed, just to go to the gym, just to put a smile on. I know how hard it was to hug my own wife.

(50:44):
I know how hard it was to tell her that I loved her. I knew how hard it was to hold her hand to look at my kids and to be proud, to be their father, and to hug my children. Like I know how hard it is to do all of those things. And my advice is, [00:51:00] you know, your healing journey starts with a decision. Okay? You have to make that decision that I, I do want to do better. I do want to be better. I know that I can do this. I, but, but you have to realize it’s going to be very hard. Like there are gonna be a lot of good days in front of you, but there will inevitably be bad days as well. And so when you have that expectation of like, okay, there is gonna be good, but there are also gonna be some speed bumps I’m gonna have to navigate while I’m on the way there.

(51:26):
once you have that expectation, [00:51:30] it’s gonna make it a lot easier. Because if you just go straight for the moon and you don’t expect any bumps when they come and hit you, you know, it’s funny, a survivor of combat or sexual trauma, we, we experience a lot of the same things. A survivor of these, they can, they’ll have this mentality of like, I can accomplish anything because I’ve already been through a lot, right? But then you get a flat tire or like you spill some milk. Like those little things are what get you, because it’s like, it’s just a little thing, you know? And so, [00:52:00] so once you understand, like you’ll have these little things that get in the way, you’ll be able to recover, okay? You’ll be able to get through those things, right? Being being resilient, you know, going through adversity doesn’t, doesn’t make you a or innately resilient, okay?

(52:15):
Resiliency is a skill. It is a development. It’s a, it’s a trait that you have to develop. And I would say that happiness is a skill. It’s a trait that, that if you do not have it, you can’t develop it. Okay? Love is a skill. It is something that you can develop. I think that so many people [00:52:30] grow up without it much like I did. And then we think that like this, this is not a part of my anatomy. It’s not a part of my DNA, I don’t know how to be a father. I don’t know how to be a mother. I don’t know how to love somebody. Like if you look at all of those things that you don’t have, if you treat them like skills, you can’t develop every one of those things. You can learn to be a mother, you can learn to be a father a, a husband, a wife.

(52:53):
You can learn all of these things, right? They just take time, effort, consistent. You have to be consistent and disciplined with those things. [00:53:00] And the last thing I’ll, I’ll say about that, all that is a lot of us have heartbreaking stories, okay? A lot of us have trauma, a lot of us have pain and suffering that we’ve been through. I think that those things are tragic, certainly. But I think the more tragic piece of that is what if it all just goes to waste? Like, like what a tragedy it would be to [00:53:30] get through all of that pain and suffering, all of that heartbreak and agony for nothing. If I’m going to go through something challenging in my life, I need, I, I want a reward. I want something at the end of it, whatever it is. If that’s something is being a father, if it’s being a husband, if it’s saving a life, if it’s having a rewarding career, if it’s living in the mountains by myself and I’m peaceful, like whatever it is, right?

(53:56):
I want something out of it. And I think that [00:54:00] a lot of survivors and victims, we have this, we have this metric that we’re chasing that that is success, right? We have this like, metric of accomplishment and it’s not real because what that metric is, is happiness. And you can’t measure happiness. Like there’s no metric of happiness. There’s no metric of purpose or achievement, okay? So it is a lifestyle, right? So once you build that lifestyle, like that is the beautiful side of all of this, right? You get through all this pain and suffering, like what [00:54:30] a tragedy it would be to waste it all. So it can be very beautiful. Like you can turn this, this, this leaf and become a very beautiful life and live these and do these incredible things. You just have to make the decision. You have to be consistent. You have to be disciplined. And, and doing all of those things, you know, I just, it would be the true tragedy in it all would be for it to all go to waste. And for you to not get the maximum human experience, whatever that may be. It’s different for everybody, [00:55:00] but whatever your experience is, I want it to be happy and positive and loving, and you can do all those things. It just takes consistency, discipline, and a, and a decision.

Fight The New Drug (55:08):
That was brilliantly said. Thank you so much for sharing that. Seth, before we wrap up today, is there anything else you wanted to share that we haven’t had a chance to speak about yet?

Seth (55:19):
You know, there’s there’s a lot of beautiful life left to live no matter really how old you are. So, you know, my advice there, you know, and, and just, just go out there and do your thing and, and live [00:55:30] and be happy and positive, whatever, whatever that looks like for you. Like I said, whether it’s in the mountains by yourself living peacefully or it’s running a business or it’s being a parent or whatever it is. I don’t know, just, just, I want you to realize that we go through some, some crazy things, but, you know, there is a, a beautiful side on the other end of it all. So yeah, I just, I, I’m so thankful for platforms like this and for you guys to, to give people like me a voice purely to inspire and, and provide [00:56:00] some level of motivation or advocacy for the world that, that we kind of grew up in.

Fight The New Drug (56:07):
Well, thank you so much, Seth. It has been truly an honor to get to hear your story from you. For any of our listeners wanting to read your book or learn more about your resources, we’ll be sure to link all of them in the show notes. And a reminder for our listeners to please like and subscribe if you would like to see more content like this. And again, just to follow Seth’s words, you know, a reminder that [00:56:30] if you’ve experienced trauma or abuse, you know, it does not define you and there are resources available to help you. We’ll be sure those are linked in the show notes as well. But please know you are always worthy of love and of support and justice even, and we would love to be able to help direct you to resources if you need any. So please don’t hesitate to reach out to us or look into the resources. We’ll be sure to share.

Promos (57:00):
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(57:59):
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Outro (58:30):
[00:58:30] Thanks for joining us on this episode of Consider Before Consuming, consider Before Consuming is brought to you by Fight the new Drug. Fight The New Drug is a non-religious and non-legislative organization that exists to provide individuals the opportunity to make an informed decision regarding pornography by raising awareness on a harmful effects using only science, facts and personal accounts. Check out the episode notes for resources mentioned in this episode. If you find this podcast helpful, [00:59:00] consider subscribing and leaving a review. Thanks again for listening. We invite you to increase your self-awareness, look both ways, check your blind spots, and consider before consuming.